possible buy - automatic tranny

[paook]

The wife and I might be looking at buying Fiat 124 #3, a 1980 automatic transmission. She refuses to drive our #1 and #2 (manual transmissions). If we do get #3, either #1 or #2 will be sold to make room.

When looking in detail at a potential automatic Fiat, what signs are there (different from those also seen in a manual version) that something is wrong with the transmission? The seller claims to be the original owner, 180,000 miles total with some amount of maintenance documentation.

[So Cal Mark]

firm shifts, fluid shouldn't smell burnt

[spiderrey]

i had a 79 auto, it was still a fun car.

[spidernut]

Manually shift through each gear including both upshifts while accelerating and downshifts while decellerating. Check the passing gear (45 mph is good enough to test it out).

In both automatic and manual shift modes, ensure the shifts are quick, immediate and firm with no slipping or hesitation between shifts. Listen for "overspeeding" between shifts. It shouldn't sound like you missed a gear!

Also, shift from Park to Drive to Reverse to Drive to Park to L to N to D to R, etc. Each time, it should go right into or immediately out of gear without any odd noises. Lastly, check for leaks around the transmission cooling lines and see if there are any drips near the bell housing. There's an odd bolt inside the bell housing that goes through the casing where fluid flows - if it is loose, it will leak. It can be tightened.

Though I personally prefer a stick when driving winding roads and on the freeway, the automatic is fantastic in town - especially in heavy traffic. It's also easier to have a soft drink or coffee in one hand while driving with an automatic.

[paook]

I also prefer the manual transmissions, but my wife avoids driving any car with one.

How about some photos, just for the fun of it:


Full size: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/448 ... c9ae_o.jpg


Full size: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/448 ... 40f4_o.jpg


Full size: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2696/448 ... f25c_o.jpg

We might be inspecting it this coming weekend. So far we've only seen these photos. The scary thing is that the seller has answered all of the questions "right"... meaning, no rust, no accidents, no transmission problems, 10 years of maintenance records, one owner, new soft top a year ago, driven once a week for the last year by the elderly owner's mechanic to keep its engine alive, etc... The price their asking seems low (~$3000). We wonder what is either being hidden or not known.

I keep forgetting to ask them why there is a brick under the driver's seat.

[paook]

I just noticed that a spider made a web on the steering wheel in photo three. Maybe it hasn't been driven so frequently, eh?

[Snoopy]

It looks nice...
brick = cruisecontrol

[rlux4]

I think the brick is the passenger mute button.
Ron

[kristoj]

I am not sure $3,000 is low considering the high mileage and the auto transmission. The automatic cars generally bring less money, so use that to your advantage when you negotiate.

[paook]

We just looked it over today, so now for a report. (Mostly to help me gather my thoughts.)

The car has been cared for very well, considering the lady is 80 years old and can't walk now. She has had a mechanic from the area drop by her place and drive it to service himself (we're pretty sure he's the well known one in Renton, WA...we'll know when we look at the service receipts tomorrow). We talked with her neighbor who had driven it a few times somewhat recently.

The good:
* The car starts right up, no hesitation, and idles well. It's thankfully the later 1980 fuel injected version.
* Engine temperature stayed low after running in park awhile and a few times running a street circuit.
* There's a slight bump in engine oil pan, but doesn't affect pump operation.
* The automatic transmission performed flawlessly. Each shift was smooth and difficult to notice unless paying close attention. Shifting through D-2-1 etc was flawless. In D the car hits all gears perfectly.
* The kickdown cable works just fine. Accelerates like a champ, and switches back to normal operation just fine.
* No bad smells from engine or transmission or dead bodies.
* All systems work flawlessly - lights, wipers, heat, etc.
* Original paint shows only slight rust bumps at a few edge locations. A nice wash and wax, some small rust and paint touch up and the car will be gorgeous.
* No structural rust or cracks. No dents.
* "Iron Cross" wheels
* Newer shock absorbers
* Newer muffler
* Newer soft top (approximately 1 year old now)
* Hard top has side rear windows (I hate the blind spot my current hard top gives on the right side)
* ALL parts are still there and functioning.
* The clock works!...but has fogged glass.
* All locks work.
* Automatic is easier to turn than the manual version (extra hand against the tough steering).
* Vinyl interior is in pretty good shape for being original. Maybe one or two rips less than 0.5 cm long.
* Seat backs are still un-bent.
* My wife actually drove it! (This will be her Fiat if we get it) She admits she likes it.
* Some newer electrical wiring in engine bay and in trunk.
* Some newer tubing in engine bay.

The not "bad", but not good:
* Her neighbor says he doesn't remember her mentioning that the engine or transmission was ever rebuilt. That gives them both 180,000 miles.
* The door window glass needs to be adjusted, the passenger one is tilted a few degrees backwards and scrapes the hard top as it closes or opens (and there's a gap between the upper back end of the window and the hard top). The doors also seem to be tilted a degree or so (no hinge cracks or other bad signs though).
* We could't test the soft top operation, the hard top clamps onto the mechanism and we didn't want to hassle the neighbor too much with the extra effort/time. The mechanism looks nice and clean though.
* Ever so slight drip from the rear of the transmission, looks like it's where the modulator attaches (according to one of our books).
* Ever so slight drip at transmission pan gasket, we'll look under the car tomorrow and see what sort of puddle exists. Thankfully, the automatic transmission is far easier to fill than the manual.
* Brake booster looks dirty and old on the outside. Soft brakes (compared to modern cars) but similar to our Fiat #1 and #2.
* Slight cyclic rubbing sound at times from the front left of the car when driving, cyclic at the wheel rotational speed. Doesn't feel like the brake is catching. The sound is not consistently there.
* The poor muffler or catalytic converter gets hit every time the car leaves her parking lot because of the angle of the concrete entrance.
* Needs new tires, sidewalls starting to crack. We would probably swap the new tires (1 year old, 50 miles on them??) from our Fiat #1 with these.
* It hasn't seen highway speeds in years.


We'll sleep on it, and decide tomorrow if we do want it. I suspect the answer already (now that my wife has actually driven one of these lovely little cars!).

[So Cal Mark]

that's a pretty good report card overall, I'd offer a bit less than the 3k asking price though. Definitely point out the flaws, and consider asking the mechanic for an estimate to repair it. You may be able to get that whole amount off the price

[paook]

So, we bought it. Now we're a three Fiat family.

I think it looks better parked outside our house. Drove it home on the expressway (first time it has seen one in maybe 10 years) without a problem.


The stack of service/repair receipts is thorough, covering everything down to a simple oil change for the last 15 years. Browsing through them I can see that the head gasket was replaced about 8,000 miles ago (6 years). Distributor was rebuilt a few years ago, a few other rebuilds within the last decade. No complete engine rebuild or transmission rebuild though, just repairs as problems came up.

[kristoj]

Congrats Jason! It looks really nice. Not too many left with the original paint. A couple of things I would highly recommend doing right away (in addition to the usual timing belt replacement): Ball joints and fuel hoses. If there isn't a receipt that the ball joints and fuel hoses have been replaced recently, I would begin there. A failure of either is not pretty.

John

[paook]

I saw the ball joints listed in a service receipt, don't remember the fuel hoses in particular. I've got a fun task ahead of me to sort out the 15 years of paperwork. (I barely have time to keep up with keeping our weekly family expense log current)

Our 1975 also has the original paint, in excellent shape. Someone stored it in a barn for 10 years. We know we would feel guilty about stripping or covering over the original red 1980 or blue 1975.

[kristoj]

Fuel hose is inexpensive and a relatively simple job. It can easily be done in an afternoon. One thing to keep in mind is that the FI cars operate under much higher fuel pressure than your carb models. If one of those hoses lets go, it sprays fuel like a garden hose all over your hot engine. The results are pretty predictable.