Brake overhaul complete -- thoughts

[nicktheviking]

Well, as of Tuesday afternoon, I was completely finished with my brake overhaul. I installed:

4 remanufactured brake calipers
2 new rotors (front)
new pads all around
SS brake lines
new fluid & bleed (from MC)

The brake pedal feel is definitely more firm, which is nice, but overall I'm unimpressed with the braking 'bite.' I'm attributing this to my choice in brake pads, which are 'italian semi-metallic' from IAP. Would I see increased performance with a high end brake pad, or is that being unrealistic? I'm considering going down the Whoa! brake kit path if a higher end brake pad doesn't help.

[So Cal Mark]

some brake pads need to be "bedded in" which requires a very specific break in. If the pads are overheated initially the resin bonding the pad material will rise to the surface and glaze the pad, reducing the friction

[mbouse]

i have owned two spiders for three years, and one Spider for fourteen years. i have always been unimpressed with the quality of my Spider brakes...both cars. even the latest near complete system re-do that POPE and Karl helped me with this past July.

i had the opportunity to drive Jon Logan's '79 Spider with 13" wheels and WHOA BRAKES.

After several back-to-back 60-0 panic stops in that trial, i remain excitedly impressed. they brought the car to a near bumper scraping stop, straight and true every time. i am buying a set of WHOA BRAKES next season!!

[Europa]

Mike,

Where do you feel that the brakes are inadequate? (not questioning, I am curious). Could it be the single piston caliper, the brake lines, brake pads??

My brakes need to be replaced and was considering purchasing the Ferodo premium pads and possibly new rotors.

[pope]

But remember, stopping really fast with a 23+ years old car could cause all the suspension parts to break off.
Sometimes its just the rust holding things on. LOL

[mbouse]

Mike,
Where do you feel that the brakes are inadequate? (not questioning, I am curious). Could it be the single piston caliper, the brake lines, brake pads??
My brakes need to be replaced and was considering purchasing the Ferodo premium pads and possibly new rotors.

if you are not bleeding the entire system every other year with dot 3 fluid, you are asking for issues in any brake system.

i've used brake pads, semi metallic from each of at least four different vendors over the years, they each produce average at best performance. the same quality pad on modern brake systems is more than appropriate for the kind of driving i expect my vehicles to perform to.

this last time..with the '78 my wife boughta set of slotted and drilled front rotors, and I bought brand spanking new old stock front calipers, rebuild rear calipers and new standard rear rotors, ALLISON AUTOMOTIVE braided steel hoses, and IAP supplied FERODO premium metalic pads. i carefully ensured that the surface between each caliper and caliper bracket was clean and free from any debris that would keep the caliper from sliding as designed. there is no pedal fade, so i do not suspect the master cylinder. there are no leaks, so i do not suspect the brake lines. all new brake pad springs were installed.

i get the same average, lack luster, adequate at best stopping power. sometimes, for whatever reason, a single caliper may decide NOT to slide correctly on its bracket - which will cause that corner not to function correctly, causing the car to lurch one way or the other.

a single piston on one side of a floating caliper does not begin to compare to the WHOA BRAKE design of four pistons per rotor on a fixed caliper.

changing brake lines might do something for you, if your current lines are plugged anywhere, or are leaking. however, if you consider that the same fittings have the same input/output sizes, changing brake line sizes won't do much good.

[nicktheviking]

I sort of wished I had gone with them in the first place, and saved the money on the front calipers, rotors & pads.

My braking system is solid, but I think my expectations are too high.

[mbouse]

forty year old technology at best. does not take much today to find better. drive defensively, with expectations and knowledge that you won't be able to stop as quickly as in your '05 Civic.

[ga.spyder]

I put the Ferodo pads on last year,and I noticed very little if any difference.I think the brakes are what they are! The WHOA brakes are a great (although expensive ) upgrade.If you arent autocrossing the car the stock brakes are in most cases adequate.I drive mine aggresively on very steep grades and have had no issues with fading ,although I have gotten them pretty hot and had to back off a little.
Craig

[mbouse]

so, where is Denise? she's got Whoa Brakes...installed last year. that should be the best before and after testimony or "don't waste your money" suggestion...

Denise? wherefore art thou?

[So Cal Mark]

it may be 4o yr old technology, but it's the same technology being used today. The only differences are ABS on some cars and the advent of larger wheels. The ABS has no effect on normal braking, so it's not a factor. The larger wheels allow much larger rotors and calipers, but unless it's a high end sports cars, the bean counters and mpg guys have kept the brakes undersized.

[mdrburchette]

Here I am. I've got two cars with two different setups. The 72 has the Whoa brake kit on it. Not only do these brakes look pretty (something very important to a female ) but they stop evenly and I haven't got them to fade, even on some of my most robust mountainous drives. The stopping power seems to be at least twice as good as my original setup and the conversion was simple.
My 71 also has good brakes. When I was getting this car ready for a performance driving school, the brake booster gave up the ghost so I eliminated it and installed Feroda racing pads on it. These pads are not the same pads as what IAP sells. These came from Vick's Auto and are pretty pricey. I was concerned about whether the pedal would be too hard to push without the booster, but, even though it takes a little more effort than before, it's not bad at all. The car stops as well as the Whoa system and I had no fading, even after giving the car hell at VIR for two days.
Which setup do I like the best? It's honestly a toss up. The two cars have their own personalities, but I guess if you want a car with manners, the Whoa brake system would be the way to go.

[nicktheviking]

Here I am. I've got two cars with two different setups. The 72 has the Whoa brake kit on it. Not only do these brakes look pretty (something very important to a female ) but they stop evenly and I haven't got them to fade, even on some of my most robust mountainous drives. The stopping power seems to be at least twice as good as my original setup and the conversion was simple.
My 71 also has good brakes. When I was getting this car ready for a performance driving school, the brake booster gave up the ghost so I eliminated it and installed Feroda racing pads on it. These pads are not the same pads as what IAP sells. These came from Vick's Auto and are pretty pricey. I was concerned about whether the pedal would be too hard to push without the booster, but, even though it takes a little more effort than before, it's not bad at all. The car stops as well as the Whoa system and I had no fading, even after giving the car hell at VIR for two days.
Which setup do I like the best? It's honestly a toss up. The two cars have their own personalities, but I guess if you want a car with manners, the Whoa brake system would be the way to go.

No way, you eliminated your brake booster? Do you have, like, iron calves?

If eliminating the brake booster increases pedal firmness and braking response, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I don't want to have to stand on the brakes every time I want to stop.

[mdrburchette]

You're only stopping 2000 lbs. Honestly, there's not that much difference and it's my left leg that has an iron calf cuz of my racing clutch.
Alvon drove both my cars in Detroit FFO last year. He didn't even realize one of them had no booster.

[nicktheviking]

You're only stopping 2000 lbs. Honestly, there's not that much difference and it's my left leg that has an iron calf cuz of my racing clutch.
Alvon drove both my cars in Detroit FFO last year. He didn't even realize one of them had no booster.

What all is involved in that? Can the MC be re-used?