Engine pulling advice

[SurlaCraque]

Hey all, getting ready to pull the engine on my 1979 father/son project. I have never pulled an engine before and looking for a some advice. I'm planning on picking up a basic engine stand from harbor freight and renting a hoist for a day once we're ready. Questions:
- I was going to leave the transmission in the car. It had a major service by a previous owner about 5 years ago. I would only pull it if folks thought it is way easier to pull them together and then separate rather than separate first.
- Do I need to support the front of the trans on a support before I separate the engine from it?
- How do I attach the hoist to engine? I see the tab with the eye on the front of the engine, but how or what do I attach to on the rear?
- Do I need a leveler device?
- What bolts do I need to affix the engine to the stand? Sounds like 3/8" 16 are typical, do they thread into the block or pass through and are bolted to the stand? I'd like to get the bolts in advance so I'm ready to go.

TIA and if you have any other advice for this undertaking I'm all ears - Colin

[Nut124]

Sounds like a fun, challenging project.

Trans: I have always pulled and installed trans and engine together. Mainly because I do not like working on my back under the car to separate, join them. A competent mech with the right tools can swap a tranny in an hour or two. Some folks spend days and give up. If you pull them together, need to remove the shifter stick and steering center link. And radiator for sure. If you pull them together, you may end up hanging the combo on a single attachment point. Need to make sure chains, links can handle the load.

I removed the trans shift extension, but some just remove the stick. Removing, re-installing the extension with the trans in the car is not easy. Removing the stick is easy. Leaving the shifter extension in place makes pulling the two a bit more challenging.

Leveler: Needed if you pull engine/trans together as serious tilting is required. If just engine, not needed, but could help. I bought the HF lift with the leveler. Worked fine. Need to orient the leveler in such a way that the crank is accessible in full tilt.

Yes, the trans needs to be supported if left in the car w/o the engine.

Stand bolts: Of the 4, two on the block have drilled thru holes so you can use any suitable bolt/nut. Two have blind holes and you need to get longer fine thread bolts. My records say M12x1.25. You will also need spacers (steel pipe) about 2-3" long.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9Lxcty7LDyyDsTQv5

[SurlaCraque]

Thanks for the reply Nut124. Hmmm. So the speedometer in my car doesn't work and the PO told me it was probably the connection on the trans not at the gauge. He said you might need to lower the trans to access the cable attachment point. Maybe that's reason enough to pull the trans with the engine? Also I suppose it makes sense to machine the flywheel while I'm rebuilding the engine and also to renew the clutch even though it is working fine now. So all the more reason to pull the trans with the engine? Does the flywheel stay on with the trans when you separate it from the engine?

Regarding hoist attachment points, it looks like you used the threaded studs on the intake manifold and the distributor mount to attach pieces of angle iron with eyes to make attachment points at the rear of the engine, is that right?

TIA again

[Nut124]

The flywheel and clutch come out with the engine.

If you pull them together, I'd have two solid lift points in the front as the combo will hang almost straight down at one point, all the weight on the front chain/chains.

Dead speedo is usually the cable. It can be replaced with the trans in the car but is not always easy.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I'd follow Nut's advice, as he's much more professional than me. My engine hoisting method involves one foot on the cowl, the other foot on the crossmember in front of the radiator, and a strong rope. This is only the engine, without the transmission. Use your legs, not your back.

A few quick thoughts, though:
1. Remove the hood if you haven't already.
2. The speedometer cable can be disconnected from below the car, without lowering the transmission. In fact, the knurled nut that holds it onto the speedometer drive (in the rear of the transmission, driver's side) is often barely more than finger tight. Thin pliers will do the trick if you can't get it off with your fingers.
3. For a '79 spider, the speedometer cable has a clip connection on the back of the speedometer. Usually it pops off, but to do this you have to unscrew the gauge cluster bolts and bring the gauges towards the steering wheel. You can pull out the center metal cable from the sheath and see whether it's broken or otherwise in bad shape.
4. Replacing the entire cable is a little more tricky as you need to feed the outer sheath through the various clips and holes as it makes its way from the speedometer to the rear of the transmission. If you think the outer sheath might be OK, you can just replace the inner metal cable. Lubricate before installing the new cable.

-Bryan

[wetminkey]

Engine out is a no brainer,...hook it up any way you want. This worked PERFECTLY with no more than a pulley/hoist:

back in takes some 'jimmying' to align tranny and engine assembly. Done with minimal cursing,...
I just replaced my speedo cable with the car intact, without any difficulty,...other than assuring it is routed properly. Firewall grommet was challenging to set in place, due to the brake master,...
Previous advice is perfect. Take your time, and try to have fun,...

[Spider951]

As usual, I'm late to add advice, plus if pulling engine & trans only twice makes me "knowledgeable" then here goes.

I have pulled the engine and transmission together, and I have pulled just the engine (but later pulled the transmission anyway for reasons below). On the face of it just pulling the engine is easier, BUT for me getting the engine and tranny back together was a significant PITA (I would sooner dock with the International Space Station than to try that again, but it was just me alone; with a helper maybe it wouldn't be so bad). I ended up pulling the transmission and fitting it back together on the engine "on the bench" for the return trip into engine bay. Plus, just pulling the engine without the transmission attached means dealing first with the four bolts holding the bellhousing to the engine block (a fun adventure involving working in tight spaces with various wrench extensions), and it requires dealing with the three bolts holding the starter motor to the bellhousing before the actual pull (also tight spaces). But removing the transmission with the engine involves dealing with the shifter and some interior parts to get at it. [The bolts holding the lever in place can be accessed from below.] Plus there can be clearance issues with rather steep angles the engine/tranny "lump" has to navigate to get it out. So it is kinda "pick your pain". But overall, I found pulling the two together to be a bit easier, but mainly for reasons of the return trip back into the car (fitting the transmission back onto the clutch "docking" issue and alignment of the four big bellhousing to block bolts issue).
There are various methods and means people have used for attachment points. The attached pictures show that I went with a chain attached to front of engine and tow strap with come-along arrangement for the rear (see pics), wrapped around the bell housing. A leveler helps to achieve the angle needed for extraction (clearing the oil pan is something of an issue).
All in all not a terrible job. Watch the fingers and toes when you have that much weight suspended.