Hello.
First post. Please direct me elsewhere if I'm in the wrong place.
I have a 1980 124 2.0 5-speed. Prior to my purchasing it, it had been sitting outside for several months resulting in a lot of moisture build-up in the cabin and boot. Dispite that, it started right up and drove fine; I drove it 40 miles home and around the neighborhood for a while before returning home and parking it in an enclosed garage since I'm still waiting on my antique plate. I started it a couple times, but I haven't run it in about two weeks. Yesterday I went out to start it without success. The battery was good, cranking strongly, but I didn't hear the fuel pump kick on and none of the dash lights came on. I realized the wires into the ignition switch had pulled off so I replaced them (Correctly I think) and the fuel pump and all cabin lights/systems came on. Still not starting. I checked grounds, fuses, distributer cap, and there's a spark to the #1 plug. The only tinkering I did on the car since the last time I started it was remounting the air manifold and put in a stereo/speakers. Before this, it would start on the second or third crank and idle well.
Very frustrating ("Get use to it," I know) since it was starting and running fine not long ago. Could the lack of excessive moisture have impacted the electrical system?
1980 FI Starting Issue
-
MrHeater
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:32 am
- Your car is a: 1980 2000 Pininfarina
-
AlexD
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:38 am
- Your car is a: 1980 Spider 2000
Re: 1980 FI Starting Issue
***Edited as I see from your intro that yours is a FI engine***
A few questions to help target the troubleshooting:
1. How frequently/recently was it run before you moved it from where it was sitting outside? Wondering how fresh/fouled the gas that had been sitting in the tank may have been - especially if you noted an excessive buildup of moisture in the cabin and trunk/boot.
2. When you installed the new stereo, did you simply plug a new one into the existing harness or did you have to cut into the existing wires? There's a lot of circuit sharing going on behind the upper console and you may have upset some balance.
Off the top of mind (and based on some experience with similar symptoms), I'd:
- double-check that the ignition wires are seated fully and in the right positions. I had a crank but not fire situation soon after I got my Spider that was a result of one of the wires attached to the wrong ignition pin
- check and clean all of your grounds - especially the ones on the crown under the dashboard (above the ignition switch). If your ignition wires worked their way loose then one/some of your ground wires may have as well. Also check the ground in the engine on the manifold - should be one or two ground wires that fasten to one of the manifold bolts at the top near the firewall. There could be more corrosion than usual if there was a moisture issue present for an extended period of time. Regardless, make it a point to work your way around all the ground spots and clean/tighten all the connections and revisit them periodically - when in doubt, check the grounds with these cars. Don't forget to clean where the negative battery wire connects to the car in the trunk/boot and if you're able to get under the car, be sure that the engine ground (heavy gauge wire that connects from the driver's side floor board to the bell housing) is there and in OK shape.
- make sure you're getting fuel to the engine - if you've been running it with old(er) gas that may or may not have moisture buildup, you could have a clogged fuel filter.
- Check the coolant temperature sensor located on the coolant T at the front of the engine. This sends a signal to the FI system and can cause the engine to run very rich, idle/run rough, or not start at all. I just replaced mine as it was causing an intermittent no-start and rough idle. You can test it by pulling the sensor plug and making a jumper wire across the plug terminals. If the car fires, replace the sensor. Might as well replace the plug as well - all parts readily available from any of the regular vendors here (AR, Vick, Midwest, etc). It was a $20 fix that took all of about 10 minutes.
- if you rule out the coolant temperature sensor then look at the Cold Start Injector at the front of the injector rail. It will be a similar looking plug as the Coolant Temp Sensor. Just pull the plug off the sensor (mind the little metal retainer clip) and try to start the car. Unlike the Coolant Temp Sensor, the car will run with the Cold Start Injector plug unplugged.
- revisit whatever you did with the intake manifold to make sure there's no obstruction or reduced aiflow.
Hang in there (and yes, get used to it) - you'll track down the gremlin. Don't get discouraged if you fix one issue and find that another one pops up - that's part of the journey but it's worthwhile.
A few questions to help target the troubleshooting:
1. How frequently/recently was it run before you moved it from where it was sitting outside? Wondering how fresh/fouled the gas that had been sitting in the tank may have been - especially if you noted an excessive buildup of moisture in the cabin and trunk/boot.
2. When you installed the new stereo, did you simply plug a new one into the existing harness or did you have to cut into the existing wires? There's a lot of circuit sharing going on behind the upper console and you may have upset some balance.
Off the top of mind (and based on some experience with similar symptoms), I'd:
- double-check that the ignition wires are seated fully and in the right positions. I had a crank but not fire situation soon after I got my Spider that was a result of one of the wires attached to the wrong ignition pin
- check and clean all of your grounds - especially the ones on the crown under the dashboard (above the ignition switch). If your ignition wires worked their way loose then one/some of your ground wires may have as well. Also check the ground in the engine on the manifold - should be one or two ground wires that fasten to one of the manifold bolts at the top near the firewall. There could be more corrosion than usual if there was a moisture issue present for an extended period of time. Regardless, make it a point to work your way around all the ground spots and clean/tighten all the connections and revisit them periodically - when in doubt, check the grounds with these cars. Don't forget to clean where the negative battery wire connects to the car in the trunk/boot and if you're able to get under the car, be sure that the engine ground (heavy gauge wire that connects from the driver's side floor board to the bell housing) is there and in OK shape.
- make sure you're getting fuel to the engine - if you've been running it with old(er) gas that may or may not have moisture buildup, you could have a clogged fuel filter.
- Check the coolant temperature sensor located on the coolant T at the front of the engine. This sends a signal to the FI system and can cause the engine to run very rich, idle/run rough, or not start at all. I just replaced mine as it was causing an intermittent no-start and rough idle. You can test it by pulling the sensor plug and making a jumper wire across the plug terminals. If the car fires, replace the sensor. Might as well replace the plug as well - all parts readily available from any of the regular vendors here (AR, Vick, Midwest, etc). It was a $20 fix that took all of about 10 minutes.
- if you rule out the coolant temperature sensor then look at the Cold Start Injector at the front of the injector rail. It will be a similar looking plug as the Coolant Temp Sensor. Just pull the plug off the sensor (mind the little metal retainer clip) and try to start the car. Unlike the Coolant Temp Sensor, the car will run with the Cold Start Injector plug unplugged.
- revisit whatever you did with the intake manifold to make sure there's no obstruction or reduced aiflow.
Hang in there (and yes, get used to it) - you'll track down the gremlin. Don't get discouraged if you fix one issue and find that another one pops up - that's part of the journey but it's worthwhile.
-
MrHeater
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:32 am
- Your car is a: 1980 2000 Pininfarina
Re: 1980 FI Starting Issue
Thank you for your prompt reply. I apologize for the delayed response on my part. I've been trying the things you suggested.
- The tank was showing about 1/4 full when I bought it and I filled it up on the way home because I was unsure the gauge was working properly, so there was at least 3/4 fresh fuel mixed in with whatever was in the tank. It ran well all the way home.
- I worked my way around and cleaned/checked all the ground crowns and various other ground points in the engine bay. I replaced several of the ground ends as some were barely connected. The negative battery cable was newly replaced and I double checked that all the connections were clean.
- The stereo was a one-for-one wire swap. I used the existing harness so I didn't splice anything togther. I didn't unplug it altogether and try starting the car, but I will try that.
- I double checked the ignition wires and from what I found online and from the original harness, they're attached correctly.
- I replaced the coolant T sensor as well as the air intake sensor on top of the engine block.
- I was trying some things tonight (My antique plate came today) and now the car won't even start. I'm hoping I didn't burn the starter up with my various attempts at starting the car.
- The tank was showing about 1/4 full when I bought it and I filled it up on the way home because I was unsure the gauge was working properly, so there was at least 3/4 fresh fuel mixed in with whatever was in the tank. It ran well all the way home.
- I worked my way around and cleaned/checked all the ground crowns and various other ground points in the engine bay. I replaced several of the ground ends as some were barely connected. The negative battery cable was newly replaced and I double checked that all the connections were clean.
- The stereo was a one-for-one wire swap. I used the existing harness so I didn't splice anything togther. I didn't unplug it altogether and try starting the car, but I will try that.
- I double checked the ignition wires and from what I found online and from the original harness, they're attached correctly.
- I replaced the coolant T sensor as well as the air intake sensor on top of the engine block.
- I was trying some things tonight (My antique plate came today) and now the car won't even start. I'm hoping I didn't burn the starter up with my various attempts at starting the car.