spacer or not?

[mbouse]

i've installed a 32/36 Weber on the '80 spider with an intake from an 1800 engine, replacing the starvin' marvin' stock carb and manifold.

i pitched the stock air cleaner, and installed a 2 inch "lunch box" air cleaner. i was able to accomplish this because i did not replace the spacer between the carburetor and the manifold. my carb sits lower than a stock carb, allowing room for a larger filter element.

so, i feel great, the car runs great as well. What is the purpose of the spacer??? would i feel greater and run greater if i replaced it? if so, got any facts to support your statement?

[So Cal Mark]

in general, the spacer will help low end torque. I'd add one if it's possible on your car, especially since fuel distribution in the stock Fiat manifold is so bad

[manoa matt]

The spacer should also help insulate the carb and gas from the heat of the manifold which would result in a denser charge. The most common spacer material is phenolic, and every now and then you will see the spacer on ebay for around $50. Pierce manifolds probably also has the phenolic spacer. I made a 3/4" spacer out of derlin a few months ago for my 32 ADFA but have not installed it yet, so I can't say how much low end torque it will add. It was pretty easy to machine, and derlin should hold up to temps of 400 deg.

I too have a lunch box type air cleaner, but its only 1.5 inches thick. I have the bottom plate of the air cleaner mounted on top of the original rubber air cleaner spacer which makes the air cleaner sit higher on the carb. If you eliminate the rubber spacer and mount the bottom plate directly to the carb flange you still might have enough room under the hood.

To get more power you want the most space between the carb throttle openings and the top plate of the air cleaner to increase the venturi effect. A taller air cleaner will achieve this, however a 1.5 inch air cleaner mounted on top of the original rubber spacer would be equivelant to a 2 inch air cleaner mounted without the rubber spacer. (Not in terms of air flow due to surface area, but air flow into the carb throttles once the air is inside the air cleaner.)

I could take some pictures at lunch to illustrate. Or you could waight for my cold air intake system, almost finished, here are some pix:

Basic kit without phlenum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/2822907118/

Phlenum mold: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/2822907142/

Semi finished phlenum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/2822907150/

Air cleaner installed in grill area: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/2822907128/

I'm working on a hold down system for the phlenum that is secure and aesthetically pleasing.

[manoa matt]

The one I typically see on ebay is redish brown and about 1 inch thick, here is another:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PHENOLIC ... enameZWD1V

Pretty cheap, order a few and stack them together.

[mbouse]

well, i thought the original spacers were considerably thicker than 5mm. was that my imagination?

soon as i find out how much shipping is, i will grab one of these to test the possible improvement to torque and cooling the carb will have on my actual butt-dino meter

[Danno]

Jon Logan sent me this combo of 1800+32adfa, they were already put together. I'm assuming that teensy black spacer is what you are referring to. You know how Jon rolls, so I don't mess with his knowledge on the subject....

[mbouse]

well, jon does good work, regardless of the chatter. yes, that is the spacer i am referring to. I just had Logan grind down and polish an intake to match the gasket...which will then match up to the head i had him rework earlier this year.

danno, while you have that setup laying on the workbench (or is that the dining room table?) you aughta take the time to remove the unwanted vacuum ports. so much nicer looking than the rubber plugs all over the place. if you are de-smogging, the only intake vacuum you need is the biggest one for the brake booster.

i'm gonna give the spacer manoa matt referred to on Evil Bay. Expect to see it next week.

[Danno]

That picture is a couple of years old that thing is on my car now with rubber hoses plugged. Thanks for the advice wayyy to late to do me any good, lol.

[So Cal Mark]

that "spacer" you're referring to won't affect perf one bit. It's a gasket, but also acts as a heat barrier to prevent the fuel from boiling in the float bowl. Any spacer that will improve perf needs to be as thick as space will allow, 1-2"

[Danno]

that "spacer" you're referring to won't affect perf one bit. It's a gasket, but also acts as a heat barrier to prevent the fuel from boiling in the float bowl. Any spacer that will improve perf needs to be as thick as space will allow, 1-2"

That's what i was thinking, thanks for clearing that up. BTW, is there a spacer (maybe that ebay one) that could be modified to accept something like a N2O nozzle? Just asking for Sh!ts and G!ggles.

[mbouse]

well, dang mark! wish you'd a said something yesterday. last night i ordered that 5mm spacer that manoa matt found on evil bay.

all i am using right now is a cork gasket.

you gotta proper spacer for a 32/36 in that box-0-parts out there in fancy-garage-land?

[manoa matt]

Mike,

Don't worry the spacer you ordered is correct, just too thin, hence why I said order a few of them. Mark was refering to the "spacer" in the picture which is actually a saturated paper gasket typicaly found in the carb rebuild kits. Nascar drivers would stack a few of the paper gaskets together for 1-2 races for a cheap improvement untill the gaskets got saturated with gas and swelled up, thus the switch to aluminum or idealy phenolic.

If you want, I can send you the 3/4" derlin carb spacer I made, you would just need your original carb mounting studs from your 78 manifold. I made it last year at Christmas when I was home, and It does not look like I'll get to use it till after Christmas this year so I'll just make another when I go home again this year.

[mbouse]

Matt, Can you squeeze in some sand from the beach too?

Used to be that i said, "If some is good, more is better". I am finding out that there really is a thing called TOO MUCH.

i have two of those 5mm spacers on the way, and may still have a factory spacer laying around. If not, i bet i can find one closer than the Pineapple State. Hate like heck to put Unkle Sam to all that work. Your offer is generous, and appreciated.

i am really glad i kept those longer carb studs, too.

How thick is a factory spacer anyway?

[manoa matt]

Mike,

Two 5mm phenolic spacers should get you 3/8" , 4 would have gotten you 3/4"

I think it will work if you first put a saturated paper gasket on the manifold, then stack the two phenolic spacers on top then one more saturated paper gasket then the carb. The key will be to get all of them lined up and to create a "smooth bore" Too much variation may create turbulance in the manifold.

[mbouse]

wowzers, 3/4" sounds huge for the spacer, or do i not understand? i will give these two 5mm a try, and then look into the pierce manifold later on.

my 2" lunchbox sits directly over the carb with no rubber spacer/gasket between, only a cork gasket.

pending the results of our other discussion concerning clearance... I think have an 1 3/4" filter element that can be substituted for the 2". i am thinking anything at or above 1 1/2" is great, and the 1 3/4" will prolly be the best after i add spacers beneath.

i understand the turbulence issue, and will work to keep that from entering the equation.