Clutch pedal spring - again

[akershaw]

I know there have been loads of posts about this, including one a couple of months ago. But I can't find a definitive reply on the specific thing that's bothering me. I had the pedal box out of the car and reinstalled the spring when putting the pedals back on their spindle. The spring and hook are very loose, to the extent that they are rattling around. The spring coils are completely compressed (i.e. touching each other) and the hook doesn't look deformed. Why isn't it tight? Perhaps it would help to understand how this spring operates. I've seen references to the 'geometry' causing the spring to exert more pressure at both ends of the pedal stroke. Does this mean there's some sort of cam effect? Should the clutch pedal be 'out of round' (mine was replaced a few years ago so might not be the same as the original)? Which brings me to my second question. The picture at the beginning of the previous thread (see below) shows the hook floating between the clutch pedal and the brake pedal. Mine is in the same position. How can it exert pressure on the clutch pedal if it can move across to the brake pedal? Should there be something to keep it from moving across? I'm worried there's something missing on my car. Thanks in advance....

[DieselSpider]

I'm confused a bit since in the picture both springs appear to be on the brake pedal. There is a white bushing separating the brake pedal from the clutch pedal and the spring is on the brake pedal side. I just replaced the clutch cable the other day and had the clutch pedal completely removed to clean up the fork and there was no engagement between the clutch pedal and a spring.

In the picture is the anchor point for the spring adjustable via the bolt with the cross bar in the slot above it?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Take a look at the exploded diagram at this link:
https://autoricambi.us/clutch-cable-return-spring/
(The default landing site for this webpage is just the spring, but click on the icon for the exploded diagram to expand it.)

The S-shaped hook should connect on one end to the spring, and the other end should be in that notch that is in the metal tab sticking out from the clutch pedal, just below and to the side of the pivot bushing of the pedal. My guess is that your hook isn't seated in that notch, or the notch and tab themselves are missing.

Another possibility is that the opposite end of the spring is attached to the wrong point on the steering column box.

I have to get under my dash later today, so I'll take a look at mine and see if I spot anything else.

-Bryan

[18Fiatsandcounting]

As I noted in the post above, I was under the dash on the driver's side of my car today, and I took a look at the S-shaped clip and spring. One end of the clip is indeed routed up over the pivot bushing on the pedal, where it hooks into a notch in the tab welded to the pedal. The other end of the S-clip attaches to the spring, and the other end of the spring hooks into a bracket welded to the underside of the steering column box, obviously made for that purpose. There are no other attachment points nearby.

It sounds like your S-hook might be draped over the pivot bushing on the clutch pedal, and not hooked into the tab as it should be.

-Bryan

[DieselSpider]

I was doing similar today Bryan using the Service Manual PDF and my 78 doesn't even have the spring on the clutch pedal or the tab with the notch on the back of it to attach the S-Hook onto after it passes the bushing. It does not look like the tab was ground off either.

Viva La Differance!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

...my 78 doesn't even have the spring on the clutch pedal or the tab with the notch on the back of it to attach the S-Hook onto after it passes the bushing.

Hmmm, interesting. I looked at several Fiat vendors websites, and they all show the clutch pedal with a tab and notch, for all models years from 1966 to 1985.

That being said, I've seen a few cars with a missing spring and S-hook, and the clutch seemed to work well enough.

-Bryan

[akershaw]

Thanks for the quick and comprehensive replies. My clutch pedal doesn't have the tab and notch, so mystery solved. Without them the spring is completely redundant. Guess that I was supplied with a non-original pedal when I replaced it and now need a new one if I want this to work as it should, although point taken about it being functional without.

[SteinOnkel]

Thanks for the quick and comprehensive replies. My clutch pedal doesn't have the tab and notch, so mystery solved. Without them the spring is completely redundant. Guess that I was supplied with a non-original pedal when I replaced it and now need a new one if I want this to work as it should, although point taken about it being functional without.

Mine was functional-ish without the spring. This is with a completely new clutch, pedal, cable etc. Drove it like that for a few days because I forgot to put the spring back. It worked, but you would occasionally have to pick up the clutch pedal with your foot. Very annoying.

Get the pedal from AR it has all the right notches.

[DieselSpider]

...my 78 doesn't even have the spring on the clutch pedal or the tab with the notch on the back of it to attach the S-Hook onto after it passes the bushing.

Hmmm, interesting. I looked at several Fiat vendors websites, and they all show the clutch pedal with a tab and notch, for all models years from 1966 to 1985.

That being said, I've seen a few cars with a missing spring and S-hook, and the clutch seemed to work well enough.

-Bryan

I am supposing that having only the one with the tab is more universal and eliminates the need to manufacture and stock both. Better to send out the one with the tab to everyone regardless of whether they need it or not than to send one without to someone who does need it.

I'd be inclined to just put a slightly better spring on the clutch fork and be done with it. If I really thought I needed the tab I'd just weld one on the existing pedal. I picked up a small Harbor Freight Wire Feed Flux Welder when they were on sale for somewhere around $90 (it could have been $79 or even $99 but its been so long sine then that OldTimers Syndrome is making it hard to remember the exact number) which has saved me thousands over the years.

[akershaw]

I've checked various vendor sites in Europe and the US. Seems that there's a mix of tabbed and tabless pedals on sale. My tabless one came from Spider Point. Very annoying. I've now ordered a second hand pedal box from eBay which I'm assured has a tab on the pedal.

Interesting point about the welding kit, Dieselspider. Wonder if it would be as life-changing as having an air compressor (how does anyone live without one of those?!).

[DieselSpider]

For years I only used the compressor to spray paint and fill tires, then came the day I got an air ratchet followed by nailers and staplers which made it much more useful so I thought that was pretty great. It got to be even more of a daily tool when the impact wrench, drills, air chisels, bump hammers, cutoff, nibbler and punch&flange tool were added.

The small wire feed welder sees much more use than the stick welder and is almost as indispensable as the vertical air compressor. With the wire feed you get spoiled by not having the constantly stop welding to grab another rod however its easier to get caught short and run out of wire since the spool is hidden out of sight behind a cover on the welder.

Start Plastic Welding and then your in a whole new world of instant repair and the plastic welder can end up seeing more use than the air compressor. I have both a hot air and a hot iron plastic welder.

[SteinOnkel]

I keep telling you guys, you're gonna end up stranded. The clutch pedals in these cars are wear and tear items. I would not install a second hand box.

I also don't see why you would bother. Here is what you need:

https://autoricambi.us/clutch-pedal/

And check your firewall, where the cable grommet goes through it. It's wafer thin there and sees a lot of flex and wear.

[akershaw]

Thanks Steinonkel. Good tips. If I was in the States I'd do as you suggest. But with postage and customs it gets pretty pricey. The new correct ones from Holtmann in Germany are being supplied in the UK for more than $140. So I might just try the second hand one for now. And who needs a clutch anyway? When my cable kept breaking (before I knew the old pedal fork was distorted) I had a few interesting drives across rush hour London. Perfectly possible to start in first at traffic lights, even on a slight incline, and then it's just a question of matching the revs. Fun days!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I had a few interesting drives across rush hour London. Perfectly possible to start in first at traffic lights, even on a slight incline, and then it's just a question of matching the revs. Fun days!

Wow, I thought I did some wild 'n' crazy things in the past with my Fiat, but I can see that I have met my match! I tip my hat in your direction.

-Bryan

[DieselSpider]

Thanks Steinonkel. Good tips. If I was in the States I'd do as you suggest. But with postage and customs it gets pretty pricey. The new correct ones from Holtmann in Germany are being supplied in the UK for more than $140. So I might just try the second hand one for now. And who needs a clutch anyway? When my cable kept breaking (before I knew the old pedal fork was distorted) I had a few interesting drives across rush hour London. Perfectly possible to start in first at traffic lights, even on a slight incline, and then it's just a question of matching the revs. Fun days!

Ended up doing that last week. The diesel gets a little fussy starting under a load when it gets below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes when you are use to the sound of your engine you can match the gears with the engine speed and power shift quite smoothly.

My wife was going to pay for a $200 tow to get her car to her favorite shop when her clutch slave blew. I started it in gear and drove it there. When that hollow clutch slave cylinder built into the throwout bearing goes it soaks the clutch with brake fluid so all done and told what might be a $25 event on my Spider can too easily be a $1,200 to $1,500 event on her Saturn VUE. I am really beginning to hate those hydraulic clutches with the internal slave cylinder that only seem to last about 40,000 miles and kill the clutch before its even half way worn out and even more so on a front wheel drive where you have to take so much of the front suspension apart to get the job done.