Need help, 1980 spyder 2000 injection issues - wont start

tobydmv · Post by **tobydmv** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:04 pm

I've located a 1980 spyder 2000 with the Bosch injection in a local shop. The mechanic is selling it for the original owner since he cant fix it for less that a small fortune. He think it needs a new ECU. The body is somewhat solid so i'm going to buy it. Plus I think it has the 14" Iron Cross mags by speedline. My previous experience is with a 69 and 71 carb spyders, not FI models. They ran great until the center bearing support failed and dropped the shaft onto the freeway.
Can anyone help me in locating the injection problem? I dont want to rush out and buy the ECU. I think they are $3-400 at IAP. Anyone with injection experience suggest some quick fixes? I think there are at least 5 other sensors (02, air position..) that can prevent the car from starting that should be cheaper then replacing the ECU. Also, if anyone could suggest alternate supplyers for the parts. IAP seems to be on the expensive side.

Also, it looks to be either olive or champagne color but severely faded, can you source the paint from the paint code on the door jam?

Thanks
Toby
Soon to be owner of 1980 Spyder 2000
Former owner of a '69 124, 71 124, and a '76 alfetta gt.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:59 pm

those ECUs are pretty reliable, I've only seen a couple of bad ones in 20+ yrs. Some basic tests are in order; is there spark? fuel pressure? power to the injectors?
Only the FI is controlled by the ecu, not the ignition system, so if there isn't any spark check the dist pickup and the module

Paingrin · Post by **Paingrin** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:24 pm

I can sympathize with this problem. I have an '80 spider with the same FI problems. There are 8 or 9 sensors that all effect the fuel system. If one goes bad the system usually stops working. Someone had a FI diagnostic manuel online here on the site. I've used it and it was great. Everything was laid out with all the checks you need to do.
My advice is the air flow sensor. If it's out of adjustment the car will either not start, or start and die. Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.
Also the paint color should be on the underside of the trunk lid. The color name and a paint code. At least mine is.

Paingrin · Post by **Paingrin** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:33 pm

Sorry Toby, looking at my post I don't think I answered your second question. Any good automotive paint seller(Sherwin-Williams, Dupont) should be able to cross-match the color code. I paint cars for a body shop and I can tell you any color can be matched. Even a paint chip from an undamaged part of your car would be enough. They use a camera and a computer system to precisely match the sample provided. Hope this helps.

tobydmv · Post by **tobydmv** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:17 am

What do you guys think about a carb conversion? I'd like to go dual but its too expensive.

Danno · Post by **Danno** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:25 am

tobydmv wrote:What do you guys think about a carb conversion? I'd like to go dual but its too expensive.

I say go for it. why not? Single 34 or 32 carb is cheap enough and then you can save for that dual carb if you think you need it down the road.

tobydmv · Post by **tobydmv** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:47 am

Well i'm wondering if its as easy as bolting on the intake, carb, linkage, and a solid state fuel pump. The FI probably is linked into the ignition. I really want to keep the FI for MPG/fuel economy but the parts are rediculously expensive. The air flow meter the guy mentioned above is $520 at Bruces parts. I think the spica mechanical Alfa FI was actually cheaper than this Bosch crud.

I know I can get a used carb, manifold, and linkages for less than $200 at the junk lot. After a rebuild and new hoses i'd probably be left at under $300 for the lot. Has anyone junked their FI system for a single carb setup?

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed May 03, 2006 3:32 pm

unless you're converting to carb for more power, don't do the swap. The FI has much better driveability, mileage, reliability, lower emissions, resale value. It's a shame so many of these cars are butchered up by people that don't understand how to fix them, don't add this one to the collection.

tobydmv · Post by **tobydmv** » Wed May 03, 2006 5:14 pm

So Cal Mark wrote:It's a shame so many of these cars are butchered up by people that don't understand how to fix them, don't add this one to the collection.

I smell yeast, was that crack meant for me tough guy?

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:26 pm

no, I have no idea of your technical ability or knowledge. There are other threads going on this forum currently concerning cars modified by PO's. This is one reason Fiat has such a bad rep here in the US with the average person. The Bosch L-jet is a good, simple system that provides great driveability for street cars. Why not just fix the darn thing right and enjoy it?

A new carb will cost about $400, rebuilt in the $200-250 range, used, well who knows what you're getting.

tobydmv · Post by **tobydmv** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:53 am

I'm just thinking out loud and weighing the options. Your right, its probably a bad contact point, relay, or senser somewhere. I've worked on Volvo's for years and the bosch FI was always strong. Its just expensive as hell.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:58 am

Bosch prices have gone up drastically in the last year or so, but there are aftermarket replacements for lots of the parts, and rebuilt AFMs if need be

cocobolo · Post by **cocobolo** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:12 am

The first step in FI checking is to test the fuel pump. Remove the hose from the outlet side. Have a copntainer to catch the gas as it is a major fire hazzard. Have an assistant crank the engine, just turning on the ignition switch won't work as the fuel pump doesn't work until oil pressure is achieved. There should be a strong flow of fuel, if ther is a slow flow, pump is probably bad. If no flow check that you are getting power on the positive terminal, and a good ground at the negitive terminal. If these tests prove good then the pump is definatly bad. Read my submission on the FI fuel pump in the electrical section. IF you are not getting power to the pump it gets a little more complicated. A fuel injection wiring diagram or better yet the Fuel injection manual would be even better. But check the oil pressure switch for function, then check the rely set under the right side of the dash. Its the double relay under there. If this doesn't work, send me your adress and I will mail you a CD with the spider shop manual, fuel injection manual, and oter good stuf to help you. Contact me at cocobolo1953@earthlink .net
Robert Gerard

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:31 am

Fiat doesn't use oil pressure to control the pump, though many other mfgs do. Fiat uses ignition pulse and air flow to show the ecu that the engine is turning over

cocobolo · Post by **cocobolo** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:34 pm

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected