Fuel injection interchangability

[riverdadd]

Hi guys, question:

will the fuel injection components from a X19 interchange in the spider? specifically the AFM??

[bradartigue]

Very little will interchange and function correctly. The injector volume is too low, the AFM is too small, the AAR won't bring the idle up enough, etc. I think the cold start valve is the same Bosch p/n as is the fuel pump and filter. The X1/9 system was designed for a 1500cc engine, the Spider for a 1995cc engine; simply put the air and fuel flow needs are met by smaller components on the X.

[riverdadd]

Thanks Brad for the clear explanation. I appreciate it

[MikeHynes]

The injectors are the same. Ditto for:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Dual relay
Water temp sensor
Maybe:
AAV
TPS
Not:
ECM
AFM

[bradartigue]

The injectors are the same. Ditto for:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Dual relay
Water temp sensor
Maybe:
AAV
TPS
Not:
ECM
AFM

I don't think the injectors are the same; the Bosch P/N for the X1/9 is 280150123, for the Spider it is 280150121 (1980-81) and 280150127 (82-83). The flow rates are different per Bosch:

x121 (early Spider) = 178.1 cc/min
x123 (x1/9) = 191.3 cc/min

Which contradicts what I was saying in a way - the X1/9 injector would flow more fuel at the same pressure and opening duration as the Spider. Bosch tables are everywhere online, double and triple check the data (most line up but some are goofy). Odd that I'm seeing Midwest show 145cc/min and the same part listed for both Spider and X1/9; theoretically they flow the same rate at different fuel pressures, which would be regulated by the fuel pressure regulator. You get the idea, these are maximum values.

[djape1977]

EFI parts should be interchangeable between folowing models
fiat 124 spider
fiat 131? (i think they were sold in US with injection)
fiat 132 2000 i.e.
fiat argenta 2000 i.e.
fiat argenta 120
fiat croma

[rridge]

I believe the Spider and X1/9 injectors differ in two small ways. The first is the length of the attached hose. The second is the injector tip, which changes the spray pattern. Some rebuilders sell both injectors under one part number and simply supply a length of hose with instructions to cut to size. A factor that confuses injector flow rating comparisons is that most data tables I've seen assume a system pressure of 3.0 bar. The pressure regulator used by both the Spider and X1/9 is set at 2.5 bar. Flow rate depends on nozzle size, pulse length and fuel pressure in the rail.

Here's a list of Bosch FI part numbers I've accumulated over the years:
Bosch fuel injection parts for '80 on Fiats

component Spider X1/9

fuel filter 0 450 905 030 same
superceded by 71028


air flow meter 0 280 202 023 0 280 200 024

aux air valve 0 280 140 120* 0 280 140 128*
* superceded by 0 280 140 135 same

cold start valve 0 280 170 041 0 280 170 031

ecu/computer
1980-82 0 280 000 190* 0 280 000 191
1983 on altitude compensator added
*superceded by 0 280 000 222

fuel pump 69133 same
uses male spade electrical connectors. 69412, 69414 universal "turbine" pumps also work but use screw-on terminals.
Also sold as CARTER Part # P72050, P72054, P72167, and P72099 (current)

injector 0 280 150 121 0 280 150 123
same injector body; different hose lengths
(0 280 150 121 superseded by 0 280 150 151)

pressure reg. 0 280 160 214 same
note: also used on Jaguar XJ6 Series III from 3/79 to 2/87
and on XJS V12, 7/81 to 9/94

relay, combo 0 332 514 127 same
supercedes 0 332 514 121 on 1980-81 spiders

temp sensor 0 280 130 023 same
note: also used on Jaguar XJ6 Series III from 3/79 to 2/87
can also use 0 280 130 026 according to the Bosch site and this is a
cheaper and more common part with a blue plastic connector

thermo-time sw 0 280 130 214 same
note also used on Porsche 924 8/76 to 6/82 and
VW Golf 1.8l 10/86 to 8/93

tps 0 280 120 300 same
note: also used on Saab 900 16v 2l from 8/86 to 8/92

Other model notes:
DOHC 131 same as Spider. Beta has larger AFM inlet (0 280 202 018).
SOHC: Strada same as 80-82 X
Bosch injector connector repair kit: Bosch # 1-287-013-003 - includes connector, rubber boot and pigtail
Bosch appears to have superceded temp coolant sensor with 0 280 130 026 in later Volvo and BMW applications. Mechanical and electrical data appear identical

fuel pump notes from Australian Bosch catalog:
124 '79-85 132C3.031 BFP070 (0 580 464 070) 130 liters/hour at 3 bar

Richard Ridge

[jskinner96]

Here's a list of Bosch FI part numbers I've accumulated over the years:
Bosch fuel injection parts for '80 on Fiats

component Spider X1/9
air flow meter 0 280 202 023 0 280 200 024

Richard,
This is an old post but I'm trying to find out if this part number 0 280 200 024 would work for me 1985 Fiat Spider. Were you saying these are interchangeable? Thanks

[rridge]

As noted above the AFM does not interchange between Spider and X1/9, though individual components within it may. Other components that do not interchange include injectors (though they can be made to work as noted above) cold start valve, and ECU. AFM's have always been tailored to specific engines in specific cars running specific ECU's and injectors.

Though injectors require occasional cleaning and new hoses all three of these model specific components are long lived and usually outlast the cars they were originally installed in. Until recently the salvage market has been able to fill the small demand for replacements. Some owners do fuel injection troubleshooting by part replacement and wind up owning two used AFM's and/or ECU's so there are more than a few extras still floating around but not necessarily in the market, at least at Fiat hobby prices. Unless you are dead sure you've find the problem, borrowing one from another local owner for testing is a smart move.

In theory AFM's and ECU's can be rebuilt and recalibrated with the right equipment, specs and testing. Owners of Porsche, BMW, Jaguar, Volvo and Saabs that share many of the same components sometimes go that route. All it takes is money. Talk with satisfied Fiat customers first.

[jskinner96]

Thank you Richard. I appreciate the detail. I think the deep grooves/worn area on the AFM ceramic piece at the lower end of the RPM range is my issue. I've gone through the guides step by step and tested parts, replaced a few and it's running pretty good now except that little bit of puffing at idle. I read the forum post about raising the arm on the AFM and trying to bend the prong down to hit new ceramic parts. I tried that but I think I was messing stuff up more than helping so I got it back to it's original spot. I have seen positive feedback on FIC so I call them today and I think I'll ship it to them to repair for $249 plus shipping. Thanks again for the info.