Confusing no start issue

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ga.spyder
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Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
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Confusing no start issue

Post by ga.spyder »

Hey guys.I havent posted for a while,but I am always lurking here :D My car is a 82 Spider.It has been the model for the car that put "Tony' out of the mechanics game! I have had her for 10 years,with very few problems.Today,I drove about 20 miles and then made a 10 minute stop.Upon coming out of the store,the car wouldnt start! It cranks and cranks ,but doest seem to fire at all.Also,I smell fuel while cranking even though I cant find any leak at all.Fuel pump is energizing with the AFM flap.I pulled plugs and I have spark.I checked all connections at the ignition switch,coil,dizz,etc.. All seems fine. I got under the car while the wife cranked it and I see no fuel leak but I do smell fuel pretty strongly.I have not checked to see if the pump is actually pumping fuel yet.
Any ideas what I might check? Would the pump energize with a bad double relay? It was so sad to see her getting towed back to my house :( That is the first time that I have had to do that,and this car doesnt get babied! I welcome any feedback
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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124JOE
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by 124JOE »

sounds like it got flooded
might be a bad injector
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
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RRoller123
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by RRoller123 »

Were plugs wet with fuel when you pulled them?
'80 FI Spider 2000
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Odoyle
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Your car is a: 1983 Pinafarina Spider
Location: CA

Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by Odoyle »

Could very well be your ignition control module, I had a similar situation occur with my 83 and after i replaced mine she ran fine.(BTW it is behind your ignition coil.
A picture of the old ICM before being replaced.
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ga.spyder
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Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by ga.spyder »

Thanks for the replies.The car was running perfect when I shut it off,so I dont think it is the injector.I am going to p/u a new ignition control module today.It is at the top of my list of suspects.The plugs did seem a bit wet with fuel.I do have spark but it appears to be weak.I have spare coil,mag p/u,fuel pump,etc... I am going to change the con mod first and go from there.I recently changed the ignition switch,and plan to check all the connections there also.
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
76was124
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by 76was124 »

If it happens again, unplug the connector on Cold Start Injector and crank it a bit. Maybe it's flooding from a failed thermo time switch causing the CSI injector to fire even when the engine is warm.
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otter
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Your car is a: 1981 Turbo Spider

Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by otter »

I had the same issue on my Spider recently (2L, Turbo) and replacing the ignition control module fixed it. $25 at Pep Boys. This or the CVS / thermo time switch seem the most likely culprits.
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ga.spyder
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by ga.spyder »

No go on the ignition control module...dammit! The car has this issue warm or cold.It is dead in my garage :cry: When I crank it ,there is a strong smell of fuel.I guess from the raw fuel not igniting?The weird thing is I seem to have spark!The mag p/u looks fine,but I have a new spare so I may throw that in,just for giggles.I also will check to see that my fuel pump is actually pumping.Pretty confused at this point.I feel it is something simple,as it was running perfectly when I shut it off at the store.
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by RRoller123 »

The strong fuel smell suggests a pressurized fuel line leak somewhere? Might be at the rail or the tubing, causing low pressure in the rail and the injectors then not passing enough fuel?

Since in the garage, re-check the basics: compression and cam timing?
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
76was124
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by 76was124 »

A quick test to verify no fuel in the cylinders is to remove the air intake boot at the throttle plate enough to spray starter fluid in, then put the boot back, tighten and then crank with the pedal to the floor.

If it fires and runs for a couple seconds, it's not your ignition or spark. If it doesn't start, it's not 'Lack' of fuel in the cylinder.
Current 81 Spider 2000
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ga.spyder
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by ga.spyder »

I tried spraying the ether into the throttle body...no go.Thanks for all the feedback.I will form a plan of attack!! I am starting to worry that it has somehow slipped timing.I am going to follow thru on all the ignition parts first.I had switch issues a few months back,and other than the fuel smell,I have similar symptoms.
I will definitely look into the fuel smell and possible leak.
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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ga.spyder
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
Location: Blairsville ,Ga.

Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by ga.spyder »

OK...one step forward,two steps back :roll: I had some time this afternoon to look things over.I went ahead and changed the mag p/u as I had a brand new one and the wire to the existing was a little suspect.Cranked,no spark.Put in a known good coil and checked all my connections.I see spark.Put in the plug,and cranked.Heard a sputter.Held the pedal to the floor(f.i. car :shock: ) and it starts 'sputters,backfires,belches,then settles into a rough idle.I played with the timing,by ear,and it smooths out.I let it get up to temp,and it is revving nicely to 5k.I move it to the other side of the garage and the tach starts going wild Up and down quickly.Then....she dies.Wont restart,and the garage is filled with a awful smell of lean(?) engine.WTH??? I am truly dazed(the fumes) and confused.Any ideas? Defintely electrical ,but I am not sure where to look.When running the engine sounded normal and healthy
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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124JOE
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Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by 124JOE »

check you ingntion plug to see if it is plugged in all the way
also turn the power on for a minute and feel if the wires are getting warm
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
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RRoller123
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by RRoller123 »

Sounds rich like maybe the CSI is constantly dumping fuel in. It will soak the entire inside of the plenum when it is spraying, thus the really short time that it is supposed to fire.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
76was124
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Re: Confusing no start issue

Post by 76was124 »

ga.spyder wrote:... I had some time this afternoon to look things over.I went ahead and changed the mag p/u as I had a brand new one and the wire to the existing was a little suspect.
Did you gap the mag pu after replacement? Also, does magnet plate have the correct side up? Screws tight?

My experience that caused of a jumpy tack once was loose screws causing the mag pick up gap to be in inconsistent
Current 81 Spider 2000
Previous 76 Spider
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