Rebuild or engine swap?

[onetofour]

Hi All - I have a 69 sport coupe with the 1438cc engine and I'm trying to figure out if I should swap in a 1800/2000 engine or rebuild my current engine with some hotrod parts. I respect the way the car drives now around town and on some weekend drives but I'm having a hard time climbing hills or any sort of incline.

I do understand that adding too much HP will send me down a slippery slope - bigger brakes, suspension, etc... so I'm not looking to that - just need 40-50 more HP.

Thoughts?

btw I've search the forum and didn't find any specific threads that answers my question.

Cheers!

[131]

If you want 40-50 more hp, it's a lot easier to get with increased capacity, getting it out of a 1438 would be expensive.

[baltobernie]

The 1800 is the same block, whereas the 2 litre is slightly taller, and requires minor mods to the exhaust. No biggie, but not a drop-in.
40-50 hp gain would be about a 50% increase in power from stock; quite a lot. I think you'd be pleased with 120 hp, a 33% increase. Not coincidentally, it's the power of a FI 2 litre. Lots more grunt down low, too.

[RRoller123]

Should we maybe be encouraging a '69 sport coupe to stay as original as possible?

Pete

[So Cal Mark]

haha, an extra 50hp from a 1438? Maybe if you could spin to about 15000 rpm. Think nitrous or go bigger. If some of you are worried about originality, keep the 1438 so that you can swap it back in before taking it to Barrett-Jackson in 100 years

[RRoller123]

It should be plenty valuable by then.

[onetofour]

Thanks All.

40-50hp was just an estimate. I'd be happy with 120hp. If an 1800 engine is a straight forward swap requiring no welding or cutting then I'm up for it. My intent is to do non-destructive modifications to the coupe as I do realize they are somewhat rare here in the US. I'll be storing the 1438 engine.

What would be the most hp gain I can get out of the 1438? Not a crazy, money no object build but more of a medium rebuild.

Cheers!

[vandor]

An 1800 would be a good swap. You could get ~110 Hp out of the 1438, but it's not HP that acceleratesa car, but torque. To increase torque, you need more cubes...
Another possible route would be to use a 1608cc engine, which is the same basic block as the 1438 (the 1800 and 2000 are longer). If it's bored out to 81mm it would be ~1650cc, a ~15% increase in cubic capacity, and it could be made to look totally stock.

[onetofour]

Thank you for the replies.

Now I need to consider the cost between the options. Could the community help me put prices to the following list:

1. Rebuild current 1438 to get more hp (~110hp)
2. Buy and rebuild 1608 bored out to 81mm
3. Buy 1800 and swap in
4. Buy 2000 and swap in

Thanks in advance!

[divace73]

has anybody swapped out the new 1.4 turbo motor from a 500?
I know there is the whole East/west vs North/South issue but it would make an interesting swap. I imagine it would be a lot easier when the new spider comes around??

[toplessexpat]

has anybody swapped out the new 1.4 turbo motor from a 500?
I know there is the whole East/west vs North/South issue but it would make an interesting swap. I imagine it would be a lot easier when the new spider comes around??

.... Beyond the need to rotate the engine (... And this discussion always makes me start thinking about an integrale swap!), the new 500 engines need pretty much all the electronic parts of a 500 there (and that's a lot of parts) or the ECU gets upset. There's many people been working on that and all have gotten frustrated and not completed (to the best of my knowledge)

[toplessexpat]

has anybody swapped out the new 1.4 turbo motor from a 500?
I know there is the whole East/west vs North/South issue but it would make an interesting swap. I imagine it would be a lot easier when the new spider comes around??

.... Beyond the need to rotate the engine (... And this discussion always makes me start thinking about an integrale swap!), the new 500 engines need pretty much all the electronic parts of a 500 there (and that's a lot of parts) or the ECU gets upset. There's many people been working on that and all have gotten frustrated and not completed (to the best of my knowledge)

[klweimer]

onetofour,
Back to your question of costs for different engine options, my personal opinion is that the stock 1800 is the way to go. Drop in the extra cubic inches and drive your car (I grew up near Detroit, so that's my answer to everything). Put a good aftermarket two barrel on it from Mark or Csaba and you'll have 80% of the power for 30% of the cost and 100% less brain damage. I'm guessing you could do this for around a grand. I have at least 3 grand in my rebuilt 2L and lost a year of driving fun.
Kirk

[spiderdan]

Hey onetofour
As a 1438 driver I thought I would chime in.

rebuild my current engine with some hotrod parts. I respect the way the car drives now around town and on some weekend drives but I'm having a hard time climbing hills or any sort of incline.

I have over 160,000 miles on mine. She climbs hills going up to the cottage no problem. I usually have a full load in trunk. Just a matter of getting her in the right gear at the right revs. I intend over the next few years to freshen her up her top end (valve stems leak). I thought about putting in a 2L (my mechanic has one he wants to flog) but IMO a well rounded 1438 is a pleasure to drive. I would think if you get that 1438 running right you will be happy with the performance. Remember it was designed for your car.
What's your compression?

[onetofour]

Thank you all again for your inputs.

Klweimer: I definitely don't want the car to be off the road for a long period of time so an 1800 seems to make the most sense. I'm planning on doing the swap with some help from a few friends. I'll need to start another thread to solicit some advice and wisdom.

Spiderdan: Thank you for your input. Getting in the right gear at the right moment has definitely been tricky. Living in San Francisco has made it extra challenging. On the flats the car drives fantastic, just have to keep the momentum on the corners.....
As for compression I haven't done one - I might rent the tool and test it.

So from what I'm hearing swapping in an 1800 shouldn't require cutting or welding right? Good thing these early cars are simple unlike the modern cars.....

Cheers!