1977 Rolling Restoration

[InfinityAero]

Hey Guys, figured I'd start a thread here to catalog everything I do on the '77 I picked up. I'll have some other photos to post, but here's what I'm working on this week:

The doors have bubbles, fun!


A little sanding reveals the rust


A little more, the good sheet metal:


I'm coating with POR15, and after I'll be bondo-ing and painting

[DieselSpider]

Hey Guys, figured I'd start a thread here to catalog everything I do on the '77 I picked up. I'll have some other photos to post, but here's what I'm working on this week:

The doors have bubbles, fun!


A little sanding reveals the rust


A little more, the good sheet metal:


I'm coating with POR15, and after I'll be bondo-ing and painting

Click on image info to get the link to the jpg from your posting service to insert as shown above.

I have a rolling resto myself and sometimes you don't know what to attack next. Sorta like being a mosquito in a nudist colony wondering "Where do I begin?"

[Redline]

I'm coating with POR15, and after I'll be bondo-ing and painting

Coating front and back? If not, it will be back quickly. Even if you do, it will be back eventually. The only solution for a lasting repair, unfortunately, is to cut back to clean metal and weld in new.

[InfinityAero]

Click on image info to get the link to the jpg from your posting service to insert as shown above.

Thanks for fixing, grabbed the wrong links!

I have a rolling resto myself and sometimes you don't know what to attack next. Sorta like being a mosquito in a nudist colony wondering "Where do I begin?"

Tell me about it! I've got a laundry list of things to do... half of which don't require much investment. Off the top of my head:

Rust repair on doors
Rust repair on passenger floorboard
Determine why one corner sags (incorrect torque, broken spring, broken shock...)
--- likely need new shocks, springs
Retorque all front suspension bolts
Install shims to correct front camber (+1 on the left side, -1 on the right)
Eliminate Door Sag
Fix Ignition Cylinder Wiring
--- if it doesn't fix the problems, ID issues with windshield wipers, HVAC system, headlights
New Tires (18 yr old tires on it currently)
Replace Panhard Rod
Treat all rust on the underbody
Remove Bumpers

All that just to get to the fun stuff!

[InfinityAero]

I'm coating with POR15, and after I'll be bondo-ing and painting

Coating front and back? If not, it will be back quickly. Even if you do, it will be back eventually. The only solution for a lasting repair, unfortunately, is to cut back to clean metal and weld in new.

Ugh, I figured about as much. The PO had mentioned that he was planning on buying whole new doors to swap on...

From what I've been able to find, I don't see a good way to sand the back side of the panels and repeat the seal process. It looks like pulling apart the door reveals this:



All the rust I have seems to run along the top of the doors right under the sills-- is there any way to access the back side of that sheet metal?

[DieselSpider]

The Turbo Diesel in mine appears to have been a bit much for the MSG5 Isuzu Transmission and the Fiat Differential however they removed the Guibo when they shoehorned the 1.8 L engine in so at least I do not have to worry about that failing.

My short list is to replace the top and get the driveline squared away along with the trailing arm and rear track bar bushings. Check out the FAQs at Mirafiori as they contain a lot of needed info for maintaining these cars along with the revelation that the front end torques should be checked at every oil change.

Your 18 year old tires are 13 years past the drop dead date for replacing them where I live. In South Florida anything past 5 years is a potential tread separation, blowout and rollover accident which even with the braced roll bar that I have is not going to be very survivable in a 124 Spider.

Mine shares daily driver duty with an Aprilia motorbike so when its more likely to rain the Spider is the ride to work so good safe wet road tires and even braking are a must.

[InfinityAero]

The Turbo Diesel in mine appears to have been a bit much for the MSG5 Isuzu Transmission and the Fiat Differential however they removed the Guibo when they shoehorned the 1.8 L engine in so at least I do not have to worry about that failing.

My short list is to replace the top and get the driveline squared away along with the trailing arm and rear track bar bushings. Check out the FAQs at Mirafiori as they contain a lot of needed info for maintaining these cars along with the revelation that the front end torques should be checked at every oil change.

Your 18 year old tires are 13 years past the drop dead date for replacing them where I live. In South Florida anything past 5 years is a potential tread separation, blowout and rollover accident which even with the braced roll bar that I have is not going to be very survivable in a 124 Spider.

Mine shares daily driver duty with an Aprilia motorbike so when its more likely to rain the Spider is the ride to work so good safe wet road tires and even braking are a must.

Didn't even notice your handle before, sounds like a hell of a Frankenstein! Reminds me of a Z4 build I'd seen where they'd shoehorned the new 3-series turbodiesel in.

Will check out more of the Mirafiori FAQs, I've read the suspension primer but hadn't browsed much else on there.

Hear ya loud and clear on the tires! I put about 6 miles on it during the test drive, and another 5 miles driving it back and forth to the alignment shop and testing the toe adjustments I'd made. Tons of tread on the tires but I noticed quite a bit of feathering so I decided to look up the age-- turned out they were still using the old 2-digit designator, so clearly old as sin. I've had a tire blow out on me on the freeway on my old 280zx turbo-- not something I want to repeat with a car that has alignment and spring/dampening issues at the moment.

I say "rolling restoration" mostly to encompass the fact that the old twin cam is humming along quite nicely, and I haven't ID'd any issues with the clutch or drivetrain yet. My toe settings are off in the rear-- 1/8" toe in on the left side and 0 toe on the right, which is giving me a little thrust misalignment, which I'm hoping a new panhard rod fixes to even out the toe in to 1/16" per side. From what I've read the trailing arm mounting bolts have just enough play in them that I could probably get the thrust angle aligned without replacing the panhard rod, but I can see a slight bend in the rod so it's probably best to just replace it.

I'll probably start putting some actual miles on the car once I get the camber balanced out and buy a new set of rubber for the wheels, it'll still pull a little to the left and the springs/shocks are pretty shot but it should work well enough to get me around town when I want. I'll put on new springs and shocks this winter, and sort out whatever problems remain with the alignment after that.

My daily driver is a 2012 Genesis Coupe so I'll be putting the vast majority of the miles on that! Unfortunately my '82 Yamaha XJ750 blew it's starter clutch, so I've got to pull the motor and split the crank case to get that back up on the road again

[InfinityAero]

Also, seeing as the door sections that have rusted through are nigh-unrepairable since I can't get to the backside of the rust and have almost zero welding experience, I'm leaning towards finishing up the temporary repair right now and doing one of two things:

1) Build replacement doors out of Carbon Fiber - I've got a good deal of glass and CF work in my past. I could sand the doors down to sheet metal/bondo this winter, make a mold, use that to make a plug, and make Carbon fiber replacements. I don't believe they're "load bearing" in the traditional sense of the word, as any reinforcement they provide in terms of rigidity would be constrained exclusively to the hinges and pin, so this could be my best option. Added benefit-- weight reduction! I would guess the cost would run between $150 and $300 to buy the Glass, CF and epoxy...

2) Use 'em till they start to bubble again and try to find some non-rusted replacements on craigslist, ebay, or in a junkyard. I would guess good, rust free doors are going in the $150 to $300 range, leading to a total cost of $300 to $600...

Any thoughts on Option 1? Is it sacrilege to make glass/CF replacement assemblies on these cars? The trunk and hood are rust free but I suppose I could do the same for those if it's not... >=D

[DieselSpider]

If you feel all is lost they you do not have much to loose in trying a weld repair first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPFXjllL9o

[Broadsword]

Wow, I just watched that video.
It is amazing how much rust is inside the panels once he opens the door up.
The amount on the external surfaces is not that much by comparison.
Scary.

[AriK]

This is my post on treating rocker panels before the cancer spreads. It's good preventive maintenance to shoot oil in such places regularly before it's too late.
http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29612

[DieselSpider]

The standard for closing in on 100 years has been Cosmoline Wax Oil:

http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/about-us/

These are considered by many to be the Gold Standard:
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/vehicle- ... solutions/

[InfinityAero]

Interesting stuff, thanks guys!

There's a lot out there for rust inhibitors apparently. I'll look into the cosmoline-- that looks to be one of the more popular solutions and it seems to be preferred to POR15 in many circles. I'm guessing the Rust Veto 342 is what I'd need. Would the Aerosol cans work as well?

Another thing people seem to be recommending is Waxoyl, any experience with that or any of the other naval jellies? Looks like that'd be an option primarily for the underbody.

Had a thought on applying to the backside-- I could likely pour in some of the POR 15 or equivalent through the access panels on the back of the door, and move it around manually like coating a motorcycle gas tank. It'd be wasteful of materials, but I'm thinking that would coat the backside appropriately, which might be enough to prevent it from just rusting through again. Maybe worth trying prior to going the Carbon Fiber or Learning to weld routes...

[InfinityAero]

Here's the progress on the first spot I'm doing the rust repair-- all ready for paint.

I'll be repairing the other two spots with rust on this door, then removing the door and taking it apart to spread the rust inhibitor on the backside of the sheet metal by pouring it in and sloshing it around like you'd do with a MC fuel tank.



I've also started with correctly torquing all the bolts for the crossmember and suspension. It's a little tricky getting to some of the bolts but I'm hoping I can get them all set right through a combination of sockets and crowfoot wrenches attached to the torque wrench.

More updates to come soon!

[InfinityAero]

Decided it's time to fix the rust behind the doors pre respray. I've fixed and prepared all the rest of the body. Cut out the bad sections:





I cut out new sections that fit right in out of 19ga steel. Got a friend swinging by next week to weld them in. Treated the rust behind the surface with Cosmoline. Should I be using bigger pieces and drilling holes in the good metal to weld through instead? I've seen that approach too...