Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
I'm new to this forum and new to Fiat Spiders as well, so pleae excuse my general ignorance on this subject...
I recently purchased an absolutely stock 82 Fiat Spider 2000, with Fuel Injection and all emissions equipment in place. The car has just recently clicked over 100K miles and I'm going to do a running restoration and try to get some generally modest performance upgrades.
The engine seems generally tight and in good condition. It doesn't burn oil in any significant way and seems to run pretty well as is, but hey - why not make it a bit better, because that's a part of the fun, right?
I have an International Auto Parts 2008 catalog that lists all kinds of stuff for the car, including headers, Ansa exhaust, K&N filter elements for the stock airbox, K&N Pod filter that replaces the airbox, etc, etc. I've also seen the 8.9 to 1 piston sets, but fankly am amazed that 8.9 would be considered "high compression" in anybody's book!
My general preference is to keep the Fuel Injection, but instead look towards replacing the headers and exhaust, possibly the cams and pistons with something a bit hotter than stock, but still very good for general street use by a middle age car guy who enjoys a neat convertable sports car with a bit of twin-cam engine sound on a tight twisty road. Again - I don't want to overdo it, but what can I expect with these kinds of modifications? What makes sense, and what is a waste of time? Any thoughts and/or recommendations are appreciated! Running premium fuel is OK, but I don't want to get to the point where I have to run Race Gas or octane booster to prevent detonation. Again, Im not interested in building an all-out street racer or performance car - just upgrading it a bit performance wise.
Some of the other posts seem to indicate that the fuel injection is a restricting factor - particularly with more highly tuned engines. But what about using F.I. with more mildly tuned engines? Can the fuel injection be modified to accommodate some of these other engine changes? What kind of HP and torque gains could I expect with the kinds of mods I've mentinoed above? Any specific pitfalls or hazards to watch out for with a plan like this?
Thanks for your assistance, and again, sorry If I'm asking questions that are "old hat" to some of you Fiat veterans!
Dave
I recently purchased an absolutely stock 82 Fiat Spider 2000, with Fuel Injection and all emissions equipment in place. The car has just recently clicked over 100K miles and I'm going to do a running restoration and try to get some generally modest performance upgrades.
The engine seems generally tight and in good condition. It doesn't burn oil in any significant way and seems to run pretty well as is, but hey - why not make it a bit better, because that's a part of the fun, right?
I have an International Auto Parts 2008 catalog that lists all kinds of stuff for the car, including headers, Ansa exhaust, K&N filter elements for the stock airbox, K&N Pod filter that replaces the airbox, etc, etc. I've also seen the 8.9 to 1 piston sets, but fankly am amazed that 8.9 would be considered "high compression" in anybody's book!
My general preference is to keep the Fuel Injection, but instead look towards replacing the headers and exhaust, possibly the cams and pistons with something a bit hotter than stock, but still very good for general street use by a middle age car guy who enjoys a neat convertable sports car with a bit of twin-cam engine sound on a tight twisty road. Again - I don't want to overdo it, but what can I expect with these kinds of modifications? What makes sense, and what is a waste of time? Any thoughts and/or recommendations are appreciated! Running premium fuel is OK, but I don't want to get to the point where I have to run Race Gas or octane booster to prevent detonation. Again, Im not interested in building an all-out street racer or performance car - just upgrading it a bit performance wise.
Some of the other posts seem to indicate that the fuel injection is a restricting factor - particularly with more highly tuned engines. But what about using F.I. with more mildly tuned engines? Can the fuel injection be modified to accommodate some of these other engine changes? What kind of HP and torque gains could I expect with the kinds of mods I've mentinoed above? Any specific pitfalls or hazards to watch out for with a plan like this?
Thanks for your assistance, and again, sorry If I'm asking questions that are "old hat" to some of you Fiat veterans!
Dave
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
your stock FI will work well with a compression boost, but not too well with perf cams. You would need a stand alone fuel control system like megasquirt or aem. The problem is the fuel curve is all wrong with perf cams, so you'll either be too lean or too rich at different points in the rpm range depending how you try to adjust the system.
And don't waste your money on the IAP header, it's a piece of crap at best. You can build a better system using a stock 4 x 2 x1 manifold and a 2" system without a catalyst.
And don't waste your money on the IAP header, it's a piece of crap at best. You can build a better system using a stock 4 x 2 x1 manifold and a 2" system without a catalyst.
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Thanks Mark! That's good to know about the fuel injection. What are your thoughts about the K&N filter in the airbox (perhaps modified a bit with a few additional holes "on the dirty side" to help it breath) vs. the K&N Pod filter that replaces the airbox entirely?
Also, does anyone sell pistons that would get the car up into the 9.5 to 1 compression ratio range, or is 8.9 to 1 really about as high as you can go with pump gasoline and this combustion chamber design? (BTW - I don't mind buying premium fuel - this is a weekend car - not a daily driver)
Thanks also, for the insight about the IAP headers. What about the Ansa rear-section - muffler/tailpipe? Is it any good?
Finally, what kind of HP gain can I expect from such relatively modest modifications such as these? In theory all of these things, combined together might make a bit of a difference, but that's theory - and I'm hardly an expert on Fiats... In reality, will I see or feel any significant or noticeable HP/torque gains to these limited modifications or are their primary advantages just to simplify things and make it sound a bit better?
Thanks - Dave
Also, does anyone sell pistons that would get the car up into the 9.5 to 1 compression ratio range, or is 8.9 to 1 really about as high as you can go with pump gasoline and this combustion chamber design? (BTW - I don't mind buying premium fuel - this is a weekend car - not a daily driver)
Thanks also, for the insight about the IAP headers. What about the Ansa rear-section - muffler/tailpipe? Is it any good?
Finally, what kind of HP gain can I expect from such relatively modest modifications such as these? In theory all of these things, combined together might make a bit of a difference, but that's theory - and I'm hardly an expert on Fiats... In reality, will I see or feel any significant or noticeable HP/torque gains to these limited modifications or are their primary advantages just to simplify things and make it sound a bit better?
Thanks - Dave
- ga.spyder
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Blairsville ,Ga.
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Hey Dave,welcome to the 82 Club(the finest year for Spiders..ok I'm prejudiced).If you scroll down there is a post in this section(performance) titled ''cold air intake''.There are links to a couple systems by fellow forum members,that are cheaper than the IAP setup.I installed the one from Gus ,because he fabbed a piece to hold up the airflow sensor.As for perfomance gains,I think they are slight at best.I bought it cause it looks great under the hood! I personally love my car the way it is. In stock form it is among the peppiest Fiats ever made!The Bosch F.I. system is so precise that it passed all emission standards w/ only a cat. conv.(no pumps,etc..) Its drawback is you cant easily re map it to take advantage of the old rule ''more air,more fuel ,more power''.Unless you plan to autocross it,the car is plenty capable w/o spending a fortune on small h.p. gains.I live in a area with VERY challenging roads,and I can stick to cars w/ a lot more h.p. than mine.....until we hit a straightaway!
good luck and dont be a stranger,Craig
good luck and dont be a stranger,Craig
Craig Nelson
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
ga.spyder...3 questions...
1. Will that air meter fit the 81?
2. Is that a stock modified air meter?
3. What did you get the meter off of, make and model?...I ask this because the wire connection looks to be different from mine.
I am in need of replacing my air box because it is broken and missing parts...I would like to do something similar...I can modify anything to fit or make it work...any advise is good
1. Will that air meter fit the 81?
2. Is that a stock modified air meter?
3. What did you get the meter off of, make and model?...I ask this because the wire connection looks to be different from mine.
I am in need of replacing my air box because it is broken and missing parts...I would like to do something similar...I can modify anything to fit or make it work...any advise is good
-
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:07 am
- Your car is a: 1981 Spider Turbo - missing the turbo
- Location: Sydney - Australia
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
81Autospider
You can reuse the existing AFM, just dismandle it from the stock air box, buy a sports air filter and adapter plate and make up a bracket to hold the AFM up off the fender/box mounting point.
Regards
You can reuse the existing AFM, just dismandle it from the stock air box, buy a sports air filter and adapter plate and make up a bracket to hold the AFM up off the fender/box mounting point.
Regards
THE FLEET
2014 Abarth "SS"
1981 Spider 2000 (Legend Industries Turbo - minus the Turbo)
1978 X1/9 1.3 Dual IDF 40's, Coupe Cam, Allison Header/Exhaust
1971 128 Sedan 1100cc, Coupe Cam/Headers
Motokhana Special 127 rear engined Rail 903cc
2014 Abarth "SS"
1981 Spider 2000 (Legend Industries Turbo - minus the Turbo)
1978 X1/9 1.3 Dual IDF 40's, Coupe Cam, Allison Header/Exhaust
1971 128 Sedan 1100cc, Coupe Cam/Headers
Motokhana Special 127 rear engined Rail 903cc
- ga.spyder
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Blairsville ,Ga.
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Hey 81autospider,The whole setup on my car is stock.I would be surprised if the AFM on the 81 is different than the 82...but you never know!I liked this system on the intake because he fabbed a piece to hold up the AFM.I useed a K&N filter ,but I am sure any cone filter w/ the same inlet would work. You can contact him at fiatman@comcast.net ,his name is Gus. God my engine was grubby looking in that pic ,I will have to upgrade!!
good luck ,Craig
good luck ,Craig
Craig Nelson
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
-
- Patron 2022
- Posts: 4211
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:32 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 2000 Spider
- Location: Granite Falls, Wa
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Hey Craig, wouldn't it be a lot easier to downgrade the picture than upgrading the engine bay?
Ron
Ron
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Ron, I always thought that when Joe Torre' goes from the NY Yankees to the LA Dodgers, thats a downgrade.
Try to keep the pics at 600dpi wide or below, so it doesnt run off the page.
Try to keep the pics at 600dpi wide or below, so it doesnt run off the page.
-
- Patron 2022
- Posts: 4211
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:32 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 2000 Spider
- Location: Granite Falls, Wa
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
I'm hearing the Coaster's old song: Charlie Brown. ("Why is everybody always pickin' on me?") That was the Coasters, wasn't it?
Good info on the resolution Pope, I didn't know that. Life is great, even at my age you can learn something new every day!
Ron
Good info on the resolution Pope, I didn't know that. Life is great, even at my age you can learn something new every day!
Ron
- ga.spyder
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Blairsville ,Ga.
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
o
Thats better! I ran outside ,cleaned ,polished,replaced clamps and hoses,painted rad and timing belt cover,etc... Wow ,that was a hectic 1/2 hour!! Car is loaded on a trailer ,tied down, and ready for our 1st FFO.I'll take a bunch of pics and post 'em later.I vow to represent us late model owners against all those ''little bumper'' people!
Craig
Thats better! I ran outside ,cleaned ,polished,replaced clamps and hoses,painted rad and timing belt cover,etc... Wow ,that was a hectic 1/2 hour!! Car is loaded on a trailer ,tied down, and ready for our 1st FFO.I'll take a bunch of pics and post 'em later.I vow to represent us late model owners against all those ''little bumper'' people!
Craig
Craig Nelson
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
-
- Patron 2022
- Posts: 4211
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:32 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 2000 Spider
- Location: Granite Falls, Wa
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Wow! Very nice Craig.
You must be in construction, no one else can work that fast.
Ron
You must be in construction, no one else can work that fast.
Ron
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
c'mon Craig, you forgot to polish the coil heat sink!
- ga.spyder
- Posts: 3478
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
- Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
- Location: Blairsville ,Ga.
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
Damn ,Mark...good eye! It does kinda stick out like a sore thumb.Its gonna have to wait until after FFO, unlessI drag her back off the trailer. I used that Gord's metal polish that Jazgeek recomended on the cam covers ,plenum,AFM,etc..That stuff really works,and it even comes w/ a red shop rag to apply it! I wish you guys were headed to FFO, maybe next year?
Craig
Craig
Craig Nelson
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
Re: Mild Perf. Upgrades To An Otherwise Stock F.I. 2.0?
I'd love to go, but it's hard to take time off during the summer. I'm hoping we can establish a West Coast Freakout, and everyone can come visit us