Parts Availability Issues -- Suggestions?

[DUCeditor]

This morning I am picking up my beloved `77 from the shop after a fairly thorough going over following several seasons off the road. I'm told she is running great, but that the ignition switch had become 'iffy,' that an available replacement proved to be junk (and was returned).

The folks working on it at AVA Restoration Services (Dublin, NH) -- principally AVA's owner, main man, and all around Euro car guru, Alex -- opened the old switch and did what he could to reconstitute it. It is now working but ideally should be replaced.

Being out of the scene a few years I am surprised to see that things have changed some. International Auto -- my principle parts supplier for almost thirty years -- is no more. And that essential parts like this switch are getting difficult to find.

Anyone able to offer a suggestion re this switch? New. Used. As long as its good. And suggestions for a new prime vendor would be appreciated too!

Thanks

-Don

[zachmac]

Several vendors are still out there: Auto Ricambi, Vicks, Midwest Bayless, Allison Automotive, Mr. Fiat. Google is your friend!

I use Auto Ricambi and Vicks a lot with good results.

BTW, if he refurbished the old switch (a very doable task) why do you think it now needs to be replaced?

[Exit98]

Don,

Glad to see you back.

Auto Ricombi should have what you need.

[KevAndAndi]

This might be a fun winter project:

http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/switch/

[DUCeditor]

BTW, if he refurbished the old switch (a very doable task) why do you think it now needs to be replaced?

Because it is still "iffy." Sometimes when the ignition is on the starter cranks but there is no spark.

Interestingly, as Alex at AVA pointed out to me, there is a small (unmarked) red light at the bottom of the tach gauge. If it is lit the engine will start, if it is not it won't. It can be made to light by, with the ignition on, grabbing the bundle of wires in the heavy black shroud behind the ignition switch and sort'a shifting them back and forth. On comes the light, and she's ready to start.

Now that would suggest to me that its just a bad connection, not an actual mechanical fault. But Alex checked all the connections -- used an electrical cleaner on them -- with no change.

If anyone can explain this, or experientially suggest a course to correct it, please do!

Other than that... I need a new switch.

-don

BTW, I took the "long way" home, down NH Rt 137 -- a curved two-lane road of rises, twists and dips. WaHoo! She ran and drove like a dream!

[joelittel]

Could be the white connector between the switch and the rest of your wiring harness. I've read other posts that suggest this connector is a weak point.

[So Cal Mark]

that light indicates the charging system is getting voltage from the ignition switch. if the light is out and can be made to illuminate by wiggling the switch that indicates a poor connection inside the switch

[DUCeditor]

that light indicates the charging system is getting voltage from the ignition switch. if the light is out and can be made to illuminate by wiggling the switch that indicates a poor connection inside the switch

"Inside the switch." Interesting. Can gently wiggling the wires affect "inside the switch"? I was leaning towards it indicating that the problem was in a culprit wire itself, or the connector.

Interestingly once the motor has started it runs flawlessly. This, in my mind, fitting right in with the light going out once the alternator is functioning -- making, again it seems to me, sense. With the alternator providing the 'juice' that particular connection in or to the switch becomes irrelevant.

A replacement switch (spoken of a "crap" by my trusted mechanic) worked for "one second" -- i.e., really not at all. Again suggesting to me that the problem is in the wire or connector.

Does my thinking -- based on reason, not mechanical skills, experience or training -- make sense?

-don

[Fiatracertracer]

I also would like to know how to make my old switch work again, all of the sudden it stopped working.

My switch did the same thing as the OP experienced and I have no idea why it happened. I replaced it with a spare from a parts car.

[DUCeditor]

My switch did the same thing as the OP experienced and I have no idea why it happened. I replaced it with a spare from a parts car.

If the spare fixed the problem then it was, indeed, the switch. I'm kind'a hoping its not (well made switches being so hard to find), but truth will out.

Anyone feel they can comment knowledgeably about my comment/question two above?

-don

[baltobernie]

... if the light is out and can be made to illuminate by wiggling the switch that indicates a poor connection inside the switch

Don, I think Mark fails to mention that the electrical connections at the rear of the ignition switch may also be marginal. So nudging this bundle may provide temporary connectivity.

If you Search this forum, you'll find several mentions and photos of burnt wiring and connectors at the rear of the ignition switch.

A definitive test for intermittent ignition switch operation is to wiggle the ignition key while in the Run position. Faulty internal contacts will momentarily kill the engine (and tach).

[baltobernie]

Here is an old post with details and photos on replacing the internal contacts of the ignition switch:
http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11625
The Lada contacts module is occasionally available on eBay. You will undoubtedly need to re-label your ignition switch wires, and there is absolutely some electrical knowledge and testing required to insure a safe installation. The good news is that you're keeping the quality Sipea mechanicals (and your keys); just replacing the contacts. Following a rebuild like this, and removing the unnecessary circuits from the ignition switch should result in a long-term fix.

[bradartigue]

The Lada switch lasts a long time if you are careful. Get in car, wait 1 second, insert key, wait 1 second, turn slowly. Most of the ancient Sipea switches need this treatment as well.

[DUCeditor]

Well we enjoyed one GLORIUS ride -- a two lane sweep between Mt. Monadnock area towns -- and then... Yup, got home and she will no longer start. No charging system light. And wiggling the wires no longer helps.

Alex at AVA agrees with many of you here that a replacement switch is the answer. He is looking into getting a Lada.

I guess I need be thankful for little things. That we decided not to stop for breakfast in some distant small town for instance. And for having a shop like AVA to look to for help.

So now my baby sits, lookin' oh, so pretty, and switch apart running to perfection.

Soon. Soon.

-don

[DieselSpider]

Even if you fix the switch you need to correct the issues that caused it to fail in the first place which is high electrical loads.

Steps would be.

Ignition Switch Fix:
http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/switch/index.html

Brown Wire Fix:
http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/bwfix/bwfix.htm

Headlight Relay:
http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/relays.htm

Note that you could be having an intermittent issue with the starter solenoid that will still be there after the switch is replaced so that system should also be vetted out.

http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/st ... click.html

I ended up putting an additional relay in for the starter solenoid circuit since the diesels solenoid draws over 10 amps to engage the starter so I took that load off the ignition switch also. Many times the starter solenoid fails because the original connections and wiring from the ignition switch can't carry enough amperage to run the solenoid without it overheating or burning out the contacts that engage the starter motor since they do not get enough clamping pressure applied to them when the ignition switch circuit does not provide enough amperage to both extend the starter drive gear into the flywheel and engage the contacts fully.