How do i check block and rings

BammBamm · Post by **BammBamm** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:45 am

My project has seemed to become more complicated. I bought an 82 spider were the PO set the cam timing 180 off. Bent at least valve in cylinder 1, no pressure, cylinder 2 has 140, cylinder 3 has 125 and cylinder 4 has 145. My plan was to drop in the running 79 carborated engine in it's place. Ends up the 79 had an additional port on the exhaust, so my header doesnt seal up. I dont want to change the exhaust system, so im stuck fixing the original motor. i bought a replacement head from a running car on ebay. i will have a machine shop check it out. The PO mentioned he honed the cylinders and judging the work I have seen I dont trust his work. How do I check out the block, bearings and rings before I build up this engine? Does anybody have ideas on how to bolt up a 1982 4 to 2 to 1 exhaust to the 79 header?

fiatfactory · Post by **fiatfactory** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:38 am

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:56 am

If you put a 79 carbureted engine into an 82 fuel injected spider you'll be dropping the horsepower by 20 and adding all manner of incompatible parts unique to the 79/80 CS2 Spider - weird carburetor, bad intake, etc.

It would be much easier to just replace the cylinder head if you ask me. If he bent a valve, pull the head. When it is off you'll be able to see if there is damage. You can post a picture here and we can tell you if it has been honed.

ScotcH · Post by **ScotcH** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:08 am

Honestly, the best thing would be to get a set of rings and bearings, and just rebuild it. The parts are pretty cheap, and a machine shop could brush and measure the block for few $, and you'd know you have a 100% fresh block to work with.

TimpanogosSlim · Post by **TimpanogosSlim** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Yeah, I agree.

Pull that engine, strip it down. Remember to mark pistons, rods, and caps for their positions.

Take complete head, block, crank, rods to machinist.

Have 'em check everything, give you shopping list. Unless they work on a lot of italians you don't want the parts they will source - buy them yourself from reputable vendors.

Have them rebuild the head.

Have the crank polished. Also have them clean out the oil galley.

Have 'em hone the cylinders.

If you have the budget, have them balance the rotating assembly. And get a lightened flywheel.

If you can work a torque wrench and have access to an engine stand (or $50 to spend on an engine stand) you can do the engine assembly.

FiatMac · Post by **FiatMac** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:06 pm

BammBamm wrote:.... My plan was to drop in the running 79 carborated engine in it's place. ..... i bought a replacement head from a running car on ebay. i will have a machine shop check it out.

I assume from the above that you have in hand a known good running '79 engine and the head that you bought was from a fuel injected 2.0 liter engine or a 1.8 head. If so you could bolt this head onto the '79 block, bolt on all the fuel injection bits and install it.

You could then completely rebuild the original engine as you have time and money.

BammBamm · Post by **BammBamm** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:58 pm

So the PO who installed the cam 180 off also said he tore down the block and honed the cylinder.. I got a replacement 82 FI head coming "from a running car". I got a local machine shop who will check out the head. I think I'm going to try the new head on the orginal motor.. i can assemble cams and belt to run a compression test. If it checks out i will leave it. If not I will move the FI head over to the other 2L block. I really dont want to tear down the block. Im already in deeper than I feel comfortable..I figure this method maybe the least work and only cost me a head gasket to try the original motor.

vandor · Post by **vandor** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:14 pm

This is the MOST important step after fitting the timing belt: turn the engine over TWO REVOLUTIONS by hand (wrench) to make sure nothing hits.

BTW, originally the 2000 engines were non-interference valve-to-head (the only intereference was with the fuel pump lobe at the end of the auxiliary shaft), so the PO may have put in high-compression pistons with smaller valve cutouts. That is good for performance, less good if the cam timing is off.

fiatfactory · Post by **fiatfactory** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:14 am

BammBamm · Post by **BammBamm** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:00 am

what???? I thought all Spiders had interference motors..Do you think if i fix the timing, i will get compression on #1 cylinder?

fiatfactory · Post by **fiatfactory** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:24 am

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:47 am

BammBamm wrote:what???? I thought all Spiders had interference motors..Do you think if i fix the timing, i will get compression on #1 cylinder?

You said you had a bent valve. If you have a bent valve how is your engine turning?

If the thing turns over fully then put a belt on correctly and try to start it.

fiatfactory · Post by **fiatfactory** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:29 am

bradartigue · Post by **bradartigue** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:09 pm

fiatfactory wrote:
bradartigue wrote:If you have a bent valve how is your engine turning?.
Of course it will turn with a bent valve... it's not bent over like a nail, all it takes is a small tweek and it won't seal...

Something sounds odd about the whole 180 out story... IMO it's more likely he clashed the valves against each other...easy to do if you rotate the cams independently of each other..the intake can be somewhere near full open and then someone goes and rotates the exhaust cam... valves touch / clash and the intake stays bent then won't seal.

I'm also still puzzled as to how you did a cranking compression test with the cams 180 out... with the motor cold, and got half reasonable numbers like that. Like I said I had assumed that you had phased the cams, started the engine, warmed it up and then done a compression test 'cos it was obviously on three cylinders.

Have you actually checked the cam phase? or are you just gping by the PO description of the possible problems / cause of the problem?

SteveC

Both cams 180 degrees out and I believe the cams strike at full extension - they will bend and the motor won't turn. But like you I don't understand the descriptions here, so forget the guesses -

- can you get the engine to turn
- is the motor lined up (and if not, can you replace the belt?)
- with the motor lined up and a new belt on test the compression

Either that or pull of the head. But whatever you do don't make an 82 a 79. Fix the 82 head.

BammBamm · Post by **BammBamm** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:20 pm

to answer your questions. The compression test was done as follows. Unscrewed all spark plugs and screwed in my compression guage. I hit the starter and checked the guage. The is no way for me to get it warm. I left the cams 180 out. I still cant figure out how this guy did that. This engine is the most clearly identified timing I have ever seen. I am going to change the cam timing back to where they should be and see what happens. I assumed I had a bent valve from the complete lack of pressure and I thought it was a interference motor. Im trying to warm up to the idea of tearing the b lock down but it intimidates me.
I verified cam position from the position hole on the cam pulley. Plus I can compare it to a running 79 engine i have..

How do i check block and rings

How do i check block and rings

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