Manufacturing vs Assemby: Fiat & Pininfarina

[phaetn]

Just trying to get my history straight, and online sources aren't totally clear about this, but I probably haven't dug deep enough through Googlebooks for books on either the Spider or Fiat history.

I know the story of Pininfaria as a design firm and coachbuilder, including their history of building/assembling Ferraris, Alfas, etc. and that they then took over the marketing of Spiders in 1983, which must have also included all final assembly, too.

I also know that the plates in our Spiders indicate they are manufactured in Torino (Turin). What I'd like clarified is where the Spiders were actually built. Paolo Pininfarina, in picking the ten greatest Pininfariina designs is quoted by CNN Style as saying

Fiat 124 Spide Europa Volumex (1983) – "When a design is innovative, personal, essential and honest it becomes a very good design and in this case, a timeless design. The result is a record of 200,000 units manufactured in our factory."

He says "manufactured." I gather by this and the number he cites that all Spiders were then "built" (i.e. assembled) by Pininfaria. So does that mean steel panels were pressed by Fiat and supplied to Pininfarina? Did they then hand over the bodies to Fiat to install the engines and driveline and for testing? Who connected the electrical stuff and installed trim like door cards or installed the dash or seats? Or did Fiat provide all of that to them and they rolled out of the Pininfarina factory good to go?

Just wondering. I've seen a b/w pic (not sure if here or elsewhere) of an assembly line that showed Spiders on one line and a parallel one with Ferraris, so that must have been at Pininfarina, but that may have been for bodies only. Even with the Cadillac Allante, apparently, the bodies were built and painted in Italy, then shipped to North America for the final assembly of the car.

Thanks for any clarification!

Cheers,
phaetn

[bradartigue]

The body was assembled by pininfarina and fitted with mechanicals built by FIAT. FIAT would ship them the suspension, drivetrain, etc., and they'd bolt it up to the body. When pininfarina took over production it was the same process.

[phaetn]

Cool, thanks for the quick reply!

[bradartigue]

You'll also get replies that the bodies were built by pininfarina and shipped to FIAT for assembly. I've always understood that the final assembly, the loading onto the trucks/trains/ships for transport, was at FIAT, with primary assembly at pininfarina. If you study pictures of the cars, FIATs, Alfas, Ferraris, Peugeots, all on the assembly lines, then the completed cars in the lots or rolling off.

Whatever process it followed was unique and inefficient.

[phaetn]

Efficiency is over-rated. The Italians did all right as a major industrial powerhouse in Europe. Not Teutonic or Japanese efficiency, by any means, but with that right blend of aesthetics and function that made them a world leader in industrial design. But then I'm totally biased.

It's a rainy day at a rented cottage so I have been killing time surfing Fiat pr0n.

I came across this site (I've seen it before) that has some great early pics of the (Pinin)Farina clan as well as outside shots of the facilities. There are also some later shots of manufacturing and many quotes from Sergio Pininfarina. There are links for the text and it seems as though it was from promotional material produced by Pininfarina itself to mark Fiat's centenary in 1999. Not sure if the pics came from the same source, but nteresting reading/audio and pictures nonetheless. The only possible issue I can spot is a pic of hundreds of Spiders in a lot identified as 1974 models, but they clearly have 1975 tubular bumpers. Maybe the pic was taken in 1974 and there's some confusion in labelling.

At any rate, Sergio Pininfarina mentions of his company's relationship with Fiat:

In a way, what Fiat did was even more significant. Once there were no more chassis to 'dress up', Fiat decided to let us have floorpans that we could use to build on 'account of manufacture'. In engineering and financial terms it was a very important decision. We built the cars and sold them and only later paid for the material supplied us with.

This may not even be about Spiders in particular, or answer exactly what was produced at what facility, but does speak to their close manufacturing and financial relationship.

Also at the same site, a link to an interview with Tom Tjaarda that has been linked to before at FS.com.

Cheers,
Phaetn

[dreavis]

Phaetn - thanks for including the link to the piece written by Tom Tjaarda. I was surprised to know that the 124 was initially based on the corvette prototype because I think the 124 looks most like the 1964-66 Ferrari 275 GTS. I assumed the 124 was a more compact version of that car.
I've always found it so fascinating that an American was behind some of the great Italian car designs. It's a cool story.

[vandor]

My understanding is that until 1983 Pininfarina made the body, completed it with paint, top, interior, etc, then shipped it to Fiat for installation of the mechanical componenets.
In the book "Fiat and LAncia Twin-Cams" there is a pic at the factory with workes posing with the 150,000th Spider made.
It is clearly visible that the car has no wheels and it is on some sort of frame with casters. Also the sign reads "150.000 carrozzerie prodotte", meaning "150,000 bodies made".

[bradartigue]

On the prototype - it was based on a prototype for the Corvette that was a never used, the "Rondine" - which didn't look anything like any Corvette:

http://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/c/corve ... oupe_3.jpg

On assembly...the picture Csaba refers to is correct, it is a body, but it has the mechanicals except the wheels. Pictures like this one: http://www.globallistics.com/spidersweb ... y/024b.jpg show cars packed into a pininfarina lot obviously fitted with most parts (steering wheels, headlamps, wipers) but missing others (side markers, wheels). Adds to the mystery.

I have a friend of a friend of Tom's and just sent a note to ask what the order was. The photographic history leads me to believe that bodies were assembled at pininfarina and fitted with the majority of mechanicals, then shipped to FIAT for final assembly. That's what I've always understood, but who knows! Hopefully Tom can clear it up, but maybe not, he left before the car was in production!

If you want one of the most inaccurate accountings of the cars, assembly, design, distribution, etc, here is a page you can visit: http://www.pininfarinaazzurra.com.

[BoHejlskov]

Also important to notice: Pininfarina is a carrozzeria. They didn't only assemble the bodies, they did all the press and manufactured all the body parts. Thats what a carrozzeria does.

I was lead to understand that the engine and gearbox was fitted at the Fiat factory initially, all bodies transported on a special transport rig through town. Later on Pininfarina started fitting the drive train as well. But i might be wrong on that.

[KevAndAndi]

It is indeed confusing. My car, according to the VIN, was "manufactured" at the Lingotto plant (with the famous rooftop track), but I've often wondered how the Spider entered the Lingotto manufacturing process (basically a spiral assembly line ramp up to the roof track) if it was already partly assembled by Pininfarina.

[bradartigue]

It is indeed confusing. My car, according to the VIN, was "manufactured" at the Lingotto plant (with the famous rooftop track), but I've often wondered how the Spider entered the Lingotto manufacturing process (basically a spiral assembly line ramp up to the roof track) if it was already partly assembled by Pininfarina.

Spider bodies are made to "drop on" to the suspension and drive train, so assuming that pininfarina did everything from the floor pans up it wouldn't be so bad. If this is the case though it is one hell of an expensive production process. Very manual, and probably made sense in 1968. By 1982 they were just spending too much making the car, hence the obnoxious price for what you got.

[KevAndAndi]

It is indeed confusing. My car, according to the VIN, was "manufactured" at the Lingotto plant (with the famous rooftop track), but I've often wondered how the Spider entered the Lingotto manufacturing process (basically a spiral assembly line ramp up to the roof track) if it was already partly assembled by Pininfarina.

Spider bodies are made to "drop on" to the suspension and drive train, so assuming that pininfarina did everything from the floor pans up it wouldn't be so bad. If this is the case though it is one hell of an expensive production process. Very manual, and probably made sense in 1968. By 1982 they were just spending too much making the car, hence the obnoxious price for what you got.

Perhaps they should have flown the bodies to Lingotto!

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/19/autom ... arina.html

Excerpt:

The Allante is a $54,700 roadster that is meant to compete with the Mercedes-Benz SL series and the new two-seater that is a joint venture of Chrysler and Maserati. The bodies are built in Pininfarina's factory and flown to Detroit, where they are mated with the General Motors powertrain. The finished product is a large car with a V8 engine mounted sideways that drives the front wheels, and only one option, a cellular telephone.

...

Despite the car's size, 56 bodies fit into a Boeing 747 for transport to Detroit. The cost is high, but Mr. Pininfarina says that, as a percentage of the Allante's sticker price, it is bearable.

[phaetn]

On assembly...the picture Csaba refers to is correct, it is a body, but it has the mechanicals except the wheels. Pictures like this one: http://www.globallistics.com/spidersweb ... y/024b.jpg show cars packed into a pininfarina lot obviously fitted with most parts (steering wheels, headlamps, wipers) but missing others (side markers, wheels). Adds to the mystery.

For anyone interested, here's a colour shot of that same picture from a magazine cover dated June, 1975.


Cheers,
phaetn

[bradartigue]

Looks like everything but the powerplant/drivetrain/suspensions/wheels and the headlight rings.

Neat picture.

[clbrenta]

Also important to notice: Pininfarina is a carrozzeria. They didn't only assemble the bodies, they did all the press and manufactured all the body parts. Thats what a carrozzeria does.

I was lead to understand that the engine and gearbox was fitted at the Fiat factory initially, all bodies transported on a special transport rig through town. Later on Pininfarina started fitting the drive train as well. But i might be wrong on that.

exact,
Pininfarina is a (carrozziere) and gave Fiat the body of the car. In the lines Fiat the machine was terminated and marketed by FIAT.
When Fiat decided to stop production Pininfarina he continued to market the spider. In those years the car was assembled in factories Pininfarina.

In the post "124 spider Rondine Tjaarda" the genesis of the spider