"Spider America" in Italy... is this the one I should buy?

[Andi]

Hi!
This is my second post here, I hope it's the right section.
So, I'm from Torino, Italy (yes, I was born where the 124 is born ) and I'm looking for my first classic car, a 124 Spider.
Even if the majority of fans here prefer the earlier models, I'm more into the late 70's / early 80's cars for many reasons.
In any case, this is the car I would like to buy: (lots of pictures in the bottom part of the page) http://www.grimaldiauto.it/scheda.php?p ... vo=4559137

I have a couple of questions for you. The first one, in general, is about the restoration; it looks great (it has been carried out in 2005) but your knowledge is 200 times better than mine, so I'd be really glad to know what you think.

The second is more complicated.
Many 124 fans here suggest to buy a "SpiderEuropa" because it has the same engine, but without the exhaust gas recirculation system and the catalytic exhaust. Basically, the Europa has better performances.
The thing is, I get this point, but I really like this specific car.
What I'm about to ask is 100% legal in Italy on a classic car, so please consider that I would never ask information on this topic if it weren't completely legal.
Is is complicated to remove the two systems (EGR and cat) in your opinion?
Does that imply the need to re-tune the engine?

Thanks A LOT for your help
Andi

[narfire]

Hi there Andi.
Looking at the ad, my best guess is that the car is a 79. Here, 79 and the carb'd 80's were the considered the poorest performing cars as they had the least HP rating.
Many here will source a 1800 head, install a single plane intake manifold from an earlier car and upgrade the carb to a 34 ADF or 32/36. I believe you will have the 4-2-1 exhaust so that is a good thing. Those bolt on upgrades will improve the performance considerably compared to the stock set up without too much fuss and bother.
Car looks nice. 16,000+ euros is a lot though compared to here. I'd like to think if it was restored in 2005, you would not have the rust issues that are prevalent on cars in NA.
Good luck.

[Andi]

Hi and thank you so much for your reply!
Yes, the car is an early '79 one... I didn't know about the 1.800 conversion, that sounds interesting and I'm sure there are plenty of cheap parts here in Italy.
Regarding the price of the car: believe it or not, they're quite expensive here in Italy... A good one (either well restored or fully original) is in the 14-18k Euro range.

[toyfiats]

Beautiful car, and in a color that many times is unfortunately changed (as it's a nice color if properly done). This is a fuel injected model year 1980 (you can see on the cowl sticker in one of the pictures), so the only real difference between this and the later euro-spec Pininfarina-badged Spiders is the catalytic converter (there is no EGR per se in the FI models), which is all of a 3 hp difference. Unless someone has done welding, it's as simple as unbolting the flanges (4 on each side) and installing a straight pipe (readily available in Europe) for an easy hp and slightly better sound.

With original magnesium Cromodora CD-30s, if the restoration was well done with no rust, I'd say go for it.

Ciao!

[Andi]

Beautiful car, and in a color that many times is unfortunately changed (as it's a nice color if properly done). This is a fuel injected model year 1980 (you can see on the cowl sticker in one of the pictures), so the only real difference between this and the later euro-spec Pininfarina-badged Spiders is the catalytic converter (there is no EGR per se in the FI models), which is all of a 3 hp difference. Unless someone has done welding, it's as simple as unbolting the flanges (4 on each side) and installing a straight pipe (readily available in Europe) for an easy hp and slightly better sound.

With original magnesium Cromodora CD-30s, if the restoration was well done with no rust, I'd say go for it.

Ciao!

Oh OK, thanks a lot, this sounds REALLY interesting

So - basically - the difference between a "Spider America" with fuel injection and a "Spider Europa" is only the catalytic converter?

[spidernut]

I believe that is correct. The European models did not have the catalytic converter.

This car appears to be an 80 model (manufactured in 1979). The fuel injected models run smoother and require significantly less maintenance than the older models with carburetors. The fuel injected models also get better fuel economy. This car looks to be in very nice condition. The console and carpet appear to have been replaced with aftermarket parts, but I didn't see anything else out of place.

Best of luck...don't forget to have it inspected thoroughly for rust or rust repairs before purchasing it.

John

[Andi]

Thank you so much, John!
Yes, I will definitely have it checked thoroughly.

[Andi]

By the way, I was wondering... do those wheels look "right"? I'm not 100% sure, but I think these are not the original, correct ones. Am I right?

[johndemar]

Most likely the original wheels may have looked like the steel spare tire.
The Cromodora CD-30's on it are a very nice, period correct wheel. If they are true Cromodoras and not replicas I would check them for stress cracks as they are a light weight wheel.
I have replicas on my car and do like the look.

[Andi]

Thank you very much John!
I will definitely check, yes. Good idea about the spare tire, I didn't think about it...
What are the standard tire size for those Cromodora wheels? I can't read the size on the tire.

One final question: I located another car in Tuscany, it belongs to the president of the local 124 registry, and I'm sure it's a perfectly good car.
With the same budget, would you buy:
- the car in the link above, so an '80 Spider America, well restored (assuming it is as good as it looks in pictures), or...
- ...an '84 Pininfarina Spider Europa, "Azzurra" limited edition, in the same light blue of the car used at the press launch, not restored but perfectly conserved?

Tough choice...