Regarding the tight fit of engine and trans

[Jimb]

Is there a reason I don't see why you shouldn't remove the transmission extension (shifter housing) to make installing the engine and trans as one unit much easier, and then install the extension after the unit has been dropped into place?
Jim

[Ken]

like this?

[narfire]

Jim, it is possible with the shifter in place, but WAY easier and less chance of pranging things without.

[Jimb]

Thought so.
Thanks for the replies.
Jim

[engineerted]

It is even easier to install with the head off. Something to think about if dropping an engine in a newly painted car.

[BEEK]

in a newly painted engine bay, i would install the engine by itself, then bolt the trans up to it from underneath. i never ever pull both of them at the same time as a single unit,

[So Cal Mark]

nor do I

[htchevyii]

I have installed the short block and trans and then installed the head. I would rather bolt on the head after than crawl around on the ground installing the transmission. It might be a whole different ball game with a lift.

[Fi8spider]

Putting it in as a whole unit in a freshly painted engine bay is a bit like the old wire loop game.
It can be done but the risk of touching a surface on the way in is high.

You'll at least need a couple trustworthy mates around to help.

[bjbrown]

I wonder if the factory installed the engine/trans as a unit from below together with the front crossmember. Then, installed the front suspension elements after the powertrain was in. Since I have my spider completely apart, that's what I'm thinking of doing after the body gets paint.

[76was124]

I jacked the back end up and kept the front of the car down to minimize the angle needed on the engine and trans until I got it through the opening. I had the shifter on, but wouldn't do it that way again. Much easier to put them in separately.

[bradartigue]

I wonder if the factory installed the engine/trans as a unit from below together with the front crossmember. Then, installed the front suspension elements after the powertrain was in. Since I have my spider completely apart, that's what I'm thinking of doing after the body gets paint.

Yes they were all installed as a unit. If you find an old 124 service manual you'll see pictures of the body on the side of this suspension/engine/transmission "unit." Once the stuff was bolted up to the body (via the crossmember) it was then a matter of hooking up the A-Arms, shocks, steering, driveshaft and rear suspension stuff. Very inefficient overall, and (relative to today) an expensive way to build a car. FIAT was still building the Spider like this when everything else had switched to fully unitized assembly and robotic assembly on their lines.

Another way to put it, if you own one of these it is one of the last hand made cars.

[johndemar]

Just my $0.02 but when I installed the engine and transmission after having the car painted, I did it as one piece,although I did remove the shifter.
Jacked the front of the car up about a foot or two and used a load adjuster on the cherry picker.
Put towels and cardboard to protect the paint.
First time I ever replaced an engine and my son and I did it flawlessly. Take your time and it can be done.

[bradartigue]

Just my $0.02 but when I installed the engine and transmission after having the car painted, I did it as one piece,although I did remove the shifter.
Jacked the front of the car up about a foot or two and used a load adjuster on the cherry picker.
Put towels and cardboard to protect the paint.
First time I ever replaced an engine and my son and I did it flawlessly. Take your time and it can be done.

Looking at the picture that starts this thread he's doing it with the car flat, and I've never been able to make it work that way. I always jacked the front end as far up as I safely could and used a load adjuster (as you note) to tilt the transmission about 45 degrees down. On the floor I had a furniture dolly so that, when the transmission donut hit the dolly it would roll backwards. The tricky part for not hitting the firewall was to adjust the load as it went down. Isn't a bad procedure once you get the hang of it, and beats the hell out of trying to mate a transmission to a motor while lying on the ground.

[Jimb]

Actually that picture is the first reply, not the initial post.

What I ended up doing was raising the back of the car as high as I could, and using a load adjuster, tilted the trans down to start with, but levelled the unit out as she slipped into place. The biggest assist was not installing the shifter housing until the engine and trans were in place, but before pushing the trans up. Then I installed the shifter housing and raised the trans up and voila.

It still was really tight though as I had a piece of 1/4 ply against the firewall to prevent the cams from doing damage.

I would certainly have an easier time of I ever did it again.

Cheers,
Jim