antifreeze leak under passenger side - advice?

[yalcin]

So I'd really appreciate any advice here. Driving home today, I get a whiff something odd, hear a sizzling sound, and suddenly notice steam rising from under the passenger side dash. Then I notice the engine temperature is in the red zone, although I had been driving barely ten minutes in ordinary street traffic. So I pull over immediately. Some seems to be dripping under the passenger side. Checking my antifreeze, it was basically gone. So I leave the car parked to cool, and retrieve some antifreeze. When I return to the car and refill it, I check under the passenger side, and I see antifreeze practically streaming out of... some part I don't recognize. It's near the center console. Pictures below, including one with the antifreeze streaming out. (The pictures are displaying upside down, sorry, don't know why.)




Can someone tell me what exactly what is going wrong here, and how I might fix it? What is this part, why is it leaking? What would you do to fix it? I tried tightening the obvious screw in the picture, but it seemed very tight already, and tightening it seemed to have no effect on the rate at which the antifreeze was spilling out.

I would greatly appreciate any advice! I'm definitely no mechanic... was hoping to learn as I go with this car. I am certainly learning a lot...

Possibly relevant background information: a few months ago we had to pull the (aftermarket) radiator out in order to upgrade the alternator. But I haven't noticed any anti-freeze problems until today. No history of such problems so far. Very last thing I did to the car was replace the headlights (last week), but I can't imagine that's relevant.

[djape1977]

leaking heater valve, a common problem on fiats. you need to get a new valve and replace it. look for a valve for 124 sedan, spider or coupe, or just buy a valve for lada, they're all the same.
it started leaking because you poured a new antyfreeze in the system.

[yalcin]

OK after googling I gather this is the heater control valve. How do I determine whether I need to replace the valve, or the gaskets, or the attaching pipes, or what? Also, is fixing this the sort of thing any mechanic can do, or do I need a Fiat guy? Or is it something I can do myself?

Recommendations for where to buy the relevant replacement parts also very welcome. I see auto recambi has replacement valves and allison automotive sells the heater pipe attaching to the valve.

Thanks -- sorry my knowledge is so limited here, I appreciate whatever pointers people have. This site has saved me more than once!

[yalcin]

leaking heater valve, a common problem on fiats. you need to get a new valve and replace it. look for a valve for 124 sedan, spider or coupe, or just buy a valve for lada, they're all the same.
it started leaking because you poured a new antyfreeze in the system.

Thanks a lot -- this is really helpful. Would you mind explaining why the new antifreeze caused this? Does this indicate I used the wrong antifreeze? I added O'Rielly 50/50 universal antifreeze.

Also, do I have to leave this car parked until I replace the valve? Or am I OK driving for a little while as long as I watch the engine temp like a hawk and carry backup antifreeze? Is there some temporary fix with plumbers tape or something?

BTW one other relevant piece of information, I only started turning the heat on in the cabin this week...is that why this just suddenly started? Perhaps somebody could explain what exactly this valve regulates?

Thanks a lot!

[divace73]

Imagine what it is like in a RHD spider, I now always wear shoes.........

[aj81spider]

The valve lets coolant through your heater core or stops it. When you turned the heat on you opened up the pipe allowing coolant to flow into the heater core. I would guess that turning the heat on for the first time was the event that made the old valve fail.

If you keep driving you're going to keep dumping coolant into your interior.

[pwilliam]

The type of antifreeze you used did not cause the problem. I would recommend replacing the valve and gaskets even if you are unsure it is the valve. Having replaced this on my car, it is a bit of a headache and you need to be a bit of a contortionist. To avoid replacing the gaskets and find out the valve was the source, only to have to repeat the process again is worth the cost of the valve. Also, these are notorious for failing so even if it isnt your valve....sooner or later (probably sooner) it is going to go. Depending on the year, the pipe in your car might not match the valve at the correct angle - hence the replacement pipes. The other option is to anneal your pipe which is what I did. If you decide to anneal it, be patient and take your time or you might end up pinching the pipe and ruining it.

[yalcin]

When you turned the heat on you opened up the pipe allowing coolant to flow into the heater core. I would guess that turning the heat on for the first time was the event that made the old valve fail.

Yes that was definitely it. When I mess with the switch I see that it causes antifreeze to gush out.

The type of antifreeze you used did not cause the problem. I would recommend replacing the valve and gaskets even if you are unsure it is the valve. Having replaced this on my car, it is a bit of a headache and you need to be a bit of a contortionist. To avoid replacing the gaskets and find out the valve was the source, only to have to repeat the process again is worth the cost of the valve. Also, these are notorious for failing so even if it isnt your valve....sooner or later (probably sooner) it is going to go. Depending on the year, the pipe in your car might not match the valve at the correct angle - hence the replacement pipes. The other option is to anneal your pipe which is what I did. If you decide to anneal it, be patient and take your time or you might end up pinching the pipe and ruining it.

Thanks a lot for this, very helpful. Yeah that makes sense to me, so I have ordered a heater control valve kit from auto recambi. That seems to have everything I might need (valve, two gaskets, and a short replacement pipe). This spider is a 1980 FI, though I don't know what this tells me re: which pipe angle is going to work for me.

Would you mind giving me a sense of how complex the process is of replacing this valve? Is it pretty self-explanatory once you get in there, or would you recommend I just get a real mechanic?

[seabeelt]

Not that hard to do yourself
R/

[djape1977]

not hard at all, pretty much self explanatory once you get in there, but it will take a lot of kamasutra like positioning to get it replaced. it helps if you remove the pasanger seat first

[yalcin]

OK cool, thanks again, really appreciate it. I will give install a go when the parts arrive.

Last thing: as I mentioned above, unless my temp sensor was off, my engine temp was in the red zone, not sure for how long. I guess it could have been as long as 5 minutes. I know the car starts, and it can drive fine (after I let it cool, I managed to get it home while leaking fresh antifreeze the whole way), but I wonder nevertheless if I did some damage at some level. Recommendations for anything that I should check for heat damage in this kind of case?

[djape1977]

check for oil in the coolant and/or coolant in the oil. if there's no sign of that, just drive it. you may have caused damage to head gasket and/or piston rings but only time will tell. driving in a red zone usually results in some kind of damage but again, you may have been lucky.

[pwilliam]

I'm about 6' and managed to get in there to replace the valve without taking out the seat. Slide the seat all the way back and tilt the back as far towards the trunk as it will go. You should be able to lay in there, facing up rather comfortably. That is what I did. Just trying to save you the seat hassle but its your call. Also, there is an order of operation for this that is good to remember-take it off the exact way you put it on. Someone else posted in a similar thread that if you attach the valve to the heater core first, you wont be able to attache the pipe that runs through the fire wall. I can't remember exactly why but he was correct. So, to save yourself attaching the valve to the core twice, attache the pipe that runs through the firewall first.

[yalcin]

Thanks a lot guys for the pointers. OK so I'm guessing I will go through these steps:

1. disconnect valve from heater core
2. disconnect valve from pipe that runs through the firewall
3. See if the new valve fits at the correct angles without having to replace the pipe
4a. If so, attach new valve to pipe, then attach valve to core
4b. If not, remove old pipe, attach new pipe, attach valve to pipe, then attach valve to core

Correct me if I'm wrong in that somewhere. I assume there is no need to replace the old pipe if the angles work for the new valve. (Or does this pipe fail enough so that I actually should replace it anyway while I am in there?)

Also what tools if any would be required to fit/seal the new pipe to the relevant connection on the other side of the firewall. Is that just basically plug and play or do I need to wrap it somehow, etc. Sorry, never worked with pipes like this.. well I guess I will just see how it is connected if I need to remove it.

Thanks for all the knowledge, this site is indispensable.

[Exit98]

yalcin,

The search feature here is our friend. I doubt there is a question we might have that hasn't been covered before in considerable detail. Look here for example:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... er+control

Pretty funny, the Subject line of his post is "Anti freeze leaking into passenger side - Help"

On mine the back 10mm nut was next to impossible to get a turn on. It's blocked by a black plastic tab on the heater box. Once I finally got the nut off and the valve I took my Dremel and knocked off a part of the tab. Next time it won't be as hard.

Of course once I replaced the valve and water entered my heater core that leaked like a sieve too. So back in to replace the core. Works good now though.

Good luck.