HELP i'M BAFFLED

[rontron]

out of no where my spider is sputtering........I did a compression check and it has good and the same compression on each cylinder.............but still sounds like its running on three instead of four..........the head and the rings are only a couple thousand miles since rebuild........don't get it.........just don't get it..............I have been busy working on the body but recently ordered new cap and rotor because the middle button on the old cap was missing......thought that was the problem but when I started it up yesterday and drove it down the street is smoked like hell at first then quit smoking so much but kept sputtering.........I'm hoping because the cap was bad before that there was a build up in the cylinders that fouled the plugs and maybe now that I have replaced the cap and rotor I can replace the plugs ...............but I bet not.........not with my freaking luck

[So Cal Mark]

if the plugs are fouled, you need to figure out why. It's gotta be a fluid that fouled them; fuel, oil or coolant.
Is the engine carbed or fi?

[rontron]

Mark its carbed.........its a 1438..............and the smoke was blue which means oil right.........like I said the head was done by a pro with a great reputation and I did the bottom end changed the rings and rod bearings myself..........a about 1000 miles ago............I'm thinking I did something wrong installing the rings but it ran great for that last six months until I drove it in the rain with no top .....no dash .......hood but no grill.........but you heard that story before remember.......... and screwed everything up

after all that I found what I thought was water in a couple of the cylinders and dried them out and It started running ok on acceleration but rough on idle..............now its spudders all the time.......my son-in-law ace mechanic said to start with compression and the compression is fine .......i think I remember around 80 psi......it was a couple months ago when this latest spuddering started that I checked the compression and before I just parked it to do body work and thought I would address that later ............... then I got to thinking about the dist cap while I was doing some body work one day because it was the only thing I hadn't replaced and checked it .....and found the center button on the cap missing..........replaced it and figured that was the problem but didn't start it until yesterday when all the blue smoke came out.......

If I screwed up the ring job wouldn't that reveal itself before now?

[JEEPER]

How did you find what you thought was water in a couple of cylinders? Do you mean rain of water around the plugs or you took the plugs out and cranked the engine and water blew out? Are you sure your head gasket isn't seated properly or blown somewhere? Rings as long as you stagger the ends they should be fine.

[rontron]

okay latest update............to answer your question about the water.........I put a qtip and rubbed it on the top of the cylinder and I thought it was water but maybe it was fuel......it wasn't too brown mostly clear is why I thought it was water but now I just pulled the plugs out and number one where I thought I found moisture is fuel fowled.......I have good compression so it doesn't make sense ..........how could too much fuel get into only one cylinder if it was the carb?

I have spark to number one and I have compression.............HELLO........scratching my head big time

[GeorgeT]

Water in the gas?

[rontron]

hey Mark,,,,,,, I was doing research online and I looked for possible oil fouling causes and one source said if it was an isolated cylinder it could be the fuel pump diaphram or fuel pump something..............I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electronic about six months ago and thats about when all this started. I just made a plate and covered the hole up.......could that be my problem..........ever heard of such a thing?

[JEEPER]

hey Mark,,,,,,, I was doing research online and I looked for possible oil fouling causes and one source said if it was an isolated cylinder it could be the fuel pump diaphram or fuel pump something..............I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electronic about six months ago and thats about when all this started. I just made a plate and covered the hole up.......could that be my problem..........ever heard of such a thing?

I went to an electric fuel pump 25 years ago and didn't remove the original mechanical fuel pump and no problem 25 years later. I just spliced the fuel line at the pump to by pass it.

[rontron]

hey Mark,,,,,,, I was doing research online and I looked for possible oil fouling causes and one source said if it was an isolated cylinder it could be the fuel pump diaphram or fuel pump something..............I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electronic about six months ago and thats about when all this started. I just made a plate and covered the hole up.......could that be my problem..........ever heard of such a thing?

I went to an electric fuel pump 25 years ago and didn't remove the original mechanical fuel pump and no problem 25 years later. I just spliced the fuel line at the pump to by pass it.

just curious........how did you do the fuel line? spliced it.........? what do you mean .........?

[hayesbd]

Rontron,

If you are seeing a ton of fuel in only one cylinder, I would suggest you look at your vacuum connections from the manifold to the carb. If there is a diaphragm leak, you might be sucking fuel straight into the manifold, with the bulk of it going to just one cylinder. I experienced this with a 1981 Honda and got the blue smoke and all. Once I fixed the fuel dumping issue, it ran fine with no smoke.

Brian

[JEEPER]

Rontron,

If you are seeing a ton of fuel in only one cylinder, I would suggest you look at your vacuum connections from the manifold to the carb. If there is a diaphragm leak, you might be sucking fuel straight into the manifold, with the bulk of it going to just one cylinder. I experienced this with a 1981 Honda and got the blue smoke and all. Once I fixed the fuel dumping issue, it ran fine with no smoke.

Brian

.

[JEEPER]

hey Mark,,,,,,, I was doing research online and I looked for possible oil fouling causes and one source said if it was an isolated cylinder it could be the fuel pump diaphram or fuel pump something..............I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electronic about six months ago and thats about when all this started. I just made a plate and covered the hole up.......could that be my problem..........ever heard of such a thing?

I went to an electric fuel pump 25 years ago and didn't remove the original mechanical fuel pump and no problem 25 years later. I just spliced the fuel line at the pump to by pass it.

just curious........how did you do the fuel line? spliced it.........? what do you mean .........?

I don't remember. I'm on vacation until Oct. 4th so I can look when I get back. If memory serves me I either used a piece of copper fuel line and forced the fuel line over it and clamped it or a brass barbed coupling and a couple of hose clamps.

[TX82FIAT]

compression is fine .......i think I remember around 80 psi

When the compression is around 80 it tells me it is not fine. Blue smoke is oil as you mentioned. I think you mentioned new rings a thousand miles or so ago. New rings need to set. Some will give consideration to using break in oil. If the rings do not set properly you will have blow by where fuel gets into the oil or the other way around oil gets into cylinder. Both of these conditions can destroy your motor if not corrected. I would pull the plugs and examine each one of them very carefully and compare them to the various resources on fouled plugs to help determine what is going on. After that I might give a call to the guy that installed the rings and have a friendly, non acuational, conversation to see what the professional thinks about the current issues your car is having. Explain what you are seeing on your plugs, blue smoke and compression numbers. I am a little confused by the fact your compression is the same on all cylinders since gaskets tend to fail at certain points or rings on one or even two cyluynder might be bad but usually not all four producing consisten compression readings. Have you done a leak down test to check the difference between dry and wet compression?

[rontron]

Mark et al, Did a leak down test ...............everything checked out..........don't have to replace the rings again.........schwu.......

that;s the good news the bad news is that my friend that did the leak down test after scratching his head pulled off the cam tower covers and discovered number one lobe on the intake side was completely flat.........HOW IN THE WORLD COULD THAT HAPPEN.........when the car doesn't have 500 miles on it since I had the head done by the most reputable machinist in the Valley..........I put in the rings and put the rebuilt head on but I never pulled a cam and replaced it .........How much of a can of worms is that?