Lancia Dedra Integrale 8V

[ORFORD2004]

Can we fit that on a 2L Fiat?

[burgandy81]

I like how you are thinking!!

Having spent much time obsessing about this I think the answer is yes...and no.

My understanding is

Dedra engine is FWD and tilted therefore;
- you must change the oil pan and pick up
- you will need to drill and tap the RWD engine mounts (bosses should be there)
- the intake and exhaust outlets face the "wrong" way (towards fire wall)
- the good news is they can be turned around
- the bad news is the intake fouls the cam wheels and the exhaust fouls the water pump outlet and fan

My embarrassingly slow build thread is here http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&t=7405 It shows a couple of pictures trying to get the turbo manifold mocked up as well as my current intake.

My advice would be use the Dedra block, pistons and head. Fit a standard spider oil pump pick up and pan.

Forced induction is preference, I have a supercharger in waiting. Love instant torque and a flat curve!

I am also secretly coveting Marks new supercharger kit!!! Can't wait to see it.

Cheers,

Jordan

[ORFORD2004]

I mean only taking the intake manifold from a Lancia Dedra integrale and fit it on my 2l Fi head.

[burgandy81]

Seems I got a little excited!

Yes, the intake will fit although it may not clear the cam wheels. The differences between Tipo, Dedra and Delta all come down to the angle of the TB mount.

[ctbob]

I like how you are thinking!!

Having spent much time obsessing about this I think the answer is yes...and no.

My understanding is

Dedra engine is FWD and tilted therefore;
- you must change the oil pan and pick up
- you will need to drill and tap the RWD engine mounts (bosses should be there)
- the intake and exhaust outlets face the "wrong" way (towards fire wall)
- the good news is they can be turned around
- the bad news is the intake fouls the cam wheels and the exhaust fouls the water pump outlet and fan

My embarrassingly slow build thread is here http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&t=7405 It shows a couple of pictures trying to get the turbo manifold mocked up as well as my current intake.

My advice would be use the Dedra block, pistons and head. Fit a standard spider oil pump pick up and pan.

Forced induction is preference, I have a supercharger in waiting. Love instant torque and a flat curve!

I am also secretly coveting Marks new supercharger kit!!! Can't wait to see it.

Cheers,

Jordan

Mark has a Supercharger kit coming out? Any more info on that????

[PittsburghKevin]

Fit a standard spider oil pump pick up and pan.

Do we know if this will fit?

From http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?p=6543

The degree of difficulty will be converting the Croma sump to a RWD layout, I have done it, and for me the difficulty of doing that would put me off doing it again..

The Dedra and the Croma were contemporary models but didn't share the same body. I'm not 100% clear on the differences between models in regard to the oil pumps, etc.

I would be nice if a Spider 2.0 8v oil pan, pump, etc. would bolt up.

[djape1977]

oil pump on croma/dedra is where the front o-ring on a 124 is

[burgandy81]

Yup, it's all just rumors from me! Having read through my original post I see that I did not make it explicitly clear that I have not completed this myself. I would hate to send someone down a bad path.

Here is an English site with similar work completed on an Integrale block.

http://www.fiat-abarth.co.uk/124%20prep3%20news.htm

Very good point from PittsburghKevin that much of this is unknown except to a select few (Guy comes to mind).

Cheers

[PittsburghKevin]

Here is an English site with similar work completed on an Integrale block.

http://www.fiat-abarth.co.uk/124%20prep3%20news.htm

Very good point from PittsburghKevin that much of this is unknown except to a select few (Guy comes to mind).

That link looks quite interesting. Thank you for finding it. I have found 5 - 6 8v to 16v conversion threads that are detailed. Turbo124 has a number of them (as I am sure you know since your build thread is there). Almost all of them are missing a point or two.

From what I have read, the most common conversion is mounting the later 16v head on an earlier 8v block. Reversing the head requires modifications for the oil galleries, coolant flow, and cam gears. If using the later 16v block, there are problems with the balance shafts and the starter, engine mounts, and the oil pan. In both cases, the pistons need to allow space (fly cuts) for the extra valves.

Since we never had the later 16v engines in turbo or non-turbo form here we don't get the fun the Aussies and the folks in the EU get to have. I am guessing that Djape1977 may have done this conversion. He has been very helpful as I sort through my 131 transmission project.

[djape1977]

fiat 132 block, thema turbo crankshaft, pistons and head and pretty much nothing fits without mods

[ORFORD2004]

My project will be much simpler. Cut the throttle body end and put a piece of tube to clear the cam pulley. Fuel rail and injectors from a turbo 300cc min so it fit right in. For the exhaust, i found a Accura RSX manifold with the T3 flange for $65 and the flange is near cylinder #2. So i will cut the head flange of the manifold and weld the manifold to a flange made from my exhaust gasket. The wastgate port is also wrong side so it will be turn 180 degrees.

[burgandy81]

hey Orford2004,

Interested in your turbo manifold concept. Do you have someone who will weld the cast flange? I have had a couple of people tell me this was not possible.

Let us know how it works out. I would love to have a low cost solution to the turbo manifold challenge with spiders.

Cheers!

[ORFORD2004]

Who talk about cast flange????? This is the headers that i use http://www.ebay.com/itm/230689852333?ss ... 1643wt_943 and it's pretty close. We cut near the head flange with a band saw, adjust and weld it back on a 1\2 inches thick plate laser cut to the size of the exhaust gasket. The worst part is making the plan for the flange but i have a friend that will make it. The waste gate will have to point to the back also.

John

[burgandy81]

Well done! That is a great idea!

I am even more interested in how this works out.

Check with Jason at Millers Mule. At one time he had 1/2" flanges made up for Fiats. It might save you a step.

Also see this thread for a potential CNC file for 8V manifold flanges.
http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... old#p60371

If you are up to it, I think that deserves its own thread.

Cheers.

[PittsburghKevin]

http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/fl ... -2461.html

John - you had mentioned the flange. This seems like a starting point.