Cross member

[fiat218]

When removing the cross member to fix the bolts on the A arm and bots on the cross member, the engine should stay in place right or no, I need to drop the cross member,take it out completely,

[bobplyler]

It can stay in place, but you have to jack it up using the front of the bellhousing.

[fiat218]

It can stay in place, but you have to jack it up using the front of the bellhousing.

Ok thanks ,that what I need to know

[fiat218]

It can stay in place, but you have to jack it up using the front of the bellhousing.

So if I was to remove the cross member bolts, the cross member will drop down, then I should be able to get at the control arms bolts, correct

[azruss]

the bottom a-arms are bolted to the cross member so that means the cross member is carrying the load of the springs. You really need to pull the springs or figure out a way to tie them up compressed. I would put the car on jack stands so the front suspension can be unloaded. then worry about jacking up the motor.

[fiat218]

the bottom a-arms are bolted to the cross member so that means the cross member is carrying the load of the springs. You really need to pull the springs or figure out a way to tie them up compressed. I would put the car on jack stands so the front suspension can be unloaded. then worry about jacking up the motor.

So in removing one side of the cross member, the front suspension needs to come part first, so in reality the cross member will not just drop one side down to fix the problem on just one side only, I have to take the cross member out completely, right or wrong

[fiat218]

here what i found out. as u see on the frame, rip out of the frame, how would i fix that?
another part on the cross member, nut ripped loose from the top. u can see it in the photo.how do i fix that?
another part is how do u keep the top bolts from spinning, as i am pointing to one?
another question, how do u get them bolts that ( hold the control arm ) off
do i need to get a new cross member? there is no cracks or has it ever been welded any where
thanks

[azruss]

looks like you got the cross member off without losing any fingers. You have 2 issues. the bolt and missing plate sections need to be rewelded on the cross member. If you cant do it yourself, find a small welding/fab shop to do it for you. The 2nd is the frame rail. the 2 vertical studs are connected to a floating plate in the bottom of the frame section. This would require cutting that section out, making a new stud plate and welding it back in. The issue with all this welding is you have now made the area where the cross section bolts on hardened and thus brittle and prone to cracking. you can fix this by "peening" the welds and the areas around the weld that got hot. A jury-rig fix would be to remove the remaining stud and run long bolts thru the frame rail. You will need to reinforce the top and side of the frame rail so it wont collapse when you tighten the bolts. a piece of 1/8" angle will work well.

[fiat218]

looks like you got the cross member off without losing any fingers. You have 2 issues. the bolt and missing plate sections need to be rewelded on the cross member. If you cant do it yourself, find a small welding/fab shop to do it for you. The 2nd is the frame rail. the 2 vertical studs are connected to a floating plate in the bottom of the frame section. This would require cutting that section out, making a new stud plate and welding it back in. The issue with all this welding is you have now made the area where the cross section bolts on hardened and thus brittle and prone to cracking. you can fix this by "peening" the welds and the areas around the weld that got hot. A jury-rig fix would be to remove the remaining stud and run long bolts thru the frame rail. You will need to reinforce the top and side of the frame rail so it wont collapse when you tighten the bolts. a piece of 1/8" angle will work well.

What about the studs for the control arm, one is loose and stripped, ok so back to the cross member , I either fix that problem,or drill holes down and fasten the bolts to the cross member, adding a plate on the top of the rail, correct

[fiat218]

Azruss, what do u mean by peeing the area,welds, etc,

[azruss]

Not sure i understand control arms. If you are talking about the a-arms, the studs are in the crossmember. they can be removed with a little grinding and replaced with bolts of appropriate size. go with a grade 5 or better. spot weld the head of the bolt to keep it in place.
Here is how peening works..a little metallugy 101.
When steel gets very hot, as in welding, when it cools, all the molecules line up forming a "fault line" of sorts that can crack easily. The fault line is normally right at the edge of the weld. Since this area gets stress with the suspension movement, you can expect a crack to develop sooner or later....this is not good. You solve this issue by peening. find youself a ball peen hammer. this is the one with the ball on one end. take the ball end and start to hammer the entire surface around the weld and the weld itself. what this does is physically deform the surface of the steel forcing these fault lines to fragment and misalign so they no longer line up. Now you've eliminated the weak spot where cracking can occur.

[fiat218]

Not sure i understand control arms. If you are talking about the a-arms, the studs are in the crossmember. they can be removed with a little grinding and replaced with bolts of appropriate size. go with a grade 5 or better. spot weld the head of the bolt to keep it in place.
Here is how peening works..a little metallugy 101.
When steel gets very hot, as in welding, when it cools, all the molecules line up forming a "fault line" of sorts that can crack easily. The fault line is normally right at the edge of the weld. Since this area gets stress with the suspension movement, you can expect a crack to develop sooner or later....this is not good. You solve this issue by peening. find youself a ball peen hammer. this is the one with the ball on one end. take the ball end and start to hammer the entire surface around the weld and the weld itself. what this does is physically deform the surface of the steel forcing these fault lines to fragment and misalign so they no longer line up. Now you've eliminated the weak spot where cracking can occur.

Ok got it, yes the a arms bolts, thanks I know what u mean now, I see the cross member has been weld before, right along the bolts, I will just order a new cross member and then deal with the other problem on the frame, this way I know I have a good cross member

[fiat218]

I ordered a new cross member, and bushing for the top control arms, also motor mounts, now I just have to fix that frame to where the cross member bolts up, I don,t deal with junky parts to well

[fiat218]

here is what i was told in fixing them frame bolts to i can get the cross member back on

use a plasma and cut the side of the frame open, making a window sorta speak
reweld the bolt plate back in it place with new blots.etc
reenforce the inside where it was cut open and re weld that plate i removed to get inside
that should work? correct

[azruss]

the window idea is great. looks like you have some stress cracks where the bolts pulled out. you need to weld those up as the stress cracks will continue to migrate. I would make the stud backplate longer than the original. this will move the stress points to an area with good metal.