So far I’ve only noticed two options for upgrading brakes on a 124 Spider.
1. Replace rotors with aftermarket drilled and slotted, replace hose with stainless steel, and use comp brake pads.
2. Buy WHOA kit.
Is anyone doing anything else to upgrade/improve brakes?
Which is the better option?
124 Spider Brake Upgrades
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ventura ace
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mbouse
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So Cal Mark
the two options are quite different; akin to having a snack or a full-blown feast. If you aren't going to fit larger wheels that would allow larger rotors and pads, then you can only make the oem brakes more efficient. As mentioned earlier, slotted/drilled rotors, steel brake hoses, premium pads will help. But the big problem is fade, and you need to cool the brakes better to ease that condition. Air ducts are really the only solution, water cooling works best on vented rotors but you could rig a system to spray into the center hub of the rotor to help cool it
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mbouse
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Joe Clemente
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:35 am
- Location: Vancouver, B.C. CANADA
For the money, Whoa is a very good way to go.
Then again there's always my route...
http://www.firebreathingfiats.com/Contr ... ersion.htm
Not for the faint of heart or pocket book
Before you break the little piggy, try to keep in mind that whether you go with Whoa or with something like what I have done, it will provide more braking than you will ever need for the street. It is important to decide what you want to achieve with a brake system. These examples are not the only way to go. And don't labor under the notion that big brake kits are de rigueur for better stopping. They're cool but not necessary, really. There is a lot of publicity out for big brake conversions but not always accompanied by the straight goods on braking. The simple fact is that to improve your Spider's brakes, you don't need to go to either extent mentioned above.
Eliminate compliance, keep it cool, use good fluid and pads for the street and above all, good tires.
Then again there's always my route...
http://www.firebreathingfiats.com/Contr ... ersion.htm
Not for the faint of heart or pocket book
Before you break the little piggy, try to keep in mind that whether you go with Whoa or with something like what I have done, it will provide more braking than you will ever need for the street. It is important to decide what you want to achieve with a brake system. These examples are not the only way to go. And don't labor under the notion that big brake kits are de rigueur for better stopping. They're cool but not necessary, really. There is a lot of publicity out for big brake conversions but not always accompanied by the straight goods on braking. The simple fact is that to improve your Spider's brakes, you don't need to go to either extent mentioned above.
Eliminate compliance, keep it cool, use good fluid and pads for the street and above all, good tires.
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spiderrey
- Posts: 2623
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
- Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
- Location: San Dimas, Ca
hmmm, i dont really know how to take that.
saw ur link and visited ur site. pretty cool. my car already has the crank fired ignition. the pieces dont look as nice as urs. thier modified stock. been wanting to put adjustable cam gears on. but just havent done much to the car lately. thing just sits in the garage. need to get back into it.
saw ur link and visited ur site. pretty cool. my car already has the crank fired ignition. the pieces dont look as nice as urs. thier modified stock. been wanting to put adjustable cam gears on. but just havent done much to the car lately. thing just sits in the garage. need to get back into it.
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pastaroni
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Joe Clemente
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:35 am
- Location: Vancouver, B.C. CANADA
Yeah, some discount...
I can consider myself lucky, I guess...
It still cost me a LOT of money, despite my connection. And it was money that in hind sight could have been spent in a number of different areas on my car.
My brother's a really good guy but unfortunately he can't just give these things away. Even though he is the importer Tarox just does not sell them cheap. They don't mass produce their kits.
Before we did the work, the Fiat Spider kit could not have been further down on Tarox's list of priorities. We had to put in a bit of time and more money to design and fabricate the correct brackets just to get the right fit with the big discs and calipers. This is one of only three so far. Not a very sought after mod as you can well imagine. They are not catalogued yet and they aren't kept in stock, basically a special order item.
No regrets on my part though. It's a cool kit and the quality is second to none. And the other nice thing is that the calipers will work with your existing mc.
A clarification. What I meant in the above post is simply that it is one possible way of improving your brakes. It's extreme and better suited to competition than street. But I would suggest that the whole underlying idea with the Tarox and indeed the Whoa kits is that if one wants to do this, it is possible and the stuff to do it with is now available whereas before it wasn't. So don't let me stop you guys from opening up your cheque books.
But I'll also stick to what said about necessity. Whether you go Whoa or Tarox or Brembo or Wilwood or whatever, if you want to improve your Spider's braking capabilities, and significantly if you are on a budget, none of these are necessary.
I can consider myself lucky, I guess...
It still cost me a LOT of money, despite my connection. And it was money that in hind sight could have been spent in a number of different areas on my car.My brother's a really good guy but unfortunately he can't just give these things away. Even though he is the importer Tarox just does not sell them cheap. They don't mass produce their kits.
Before we did the work, the Fiat Spider kit could not have been further down on Tarox's list of priorities. We had to put in a bit of time and more money to design and fabricate the correct brackets just to get the right fit with the big discs and calipers. This is one of only three so far. Not a very sought after mod as you can well imagine. They are not catalogued yet and they aren't kept in stock, basically a special order item.
No regrets on my part though. It's a cool kit and the quality is second to none. And the other nice thing is that the calipers will work with your existing mc.
A clarification. What I meant in the above post is simply that it is one possible way of improving your brakes. It's extreme and better suited to competition than street. But I would suggest that the whole underlying idea with the Tarox and indeed the Whoa kits is that if one wants to do this, it is possible and the stuff to do it with is now available whereas before it wasn't. So don't let me stop you guys from opening up your cheque books.
But I'll also stick to what said about necessity. Whether you go Whoa or Tarox or Brembo or Wilwood or whatever, if you want to improve your Spider's braking capabilities, and significantly if you are on a budget, none of these are necessary.
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spiderrey
- Posts: 2623
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
- Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
- Location: San Dimas, Ca
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Joe Clemente
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:35 am
- Location: Vancouver, B.C. CANADA
That's right Rey, it's only a front kit, most kits are front only.
Balance? You mean brake bias? Yes it does affect the bias. But minimally.
Any time you increase the front rotor diameter you are basically increasing the torque that the caliper can apply to the rotating assembly therefore increasing front braking force. (Torque is force x distance from center or radius and you are increasing the distance with the big discs.) Bias is also affected when you increase the piston area in the calipers (more pistons)
Keep in mind that on a stock system, the rears only contribute to about 15-20% of the overall braking force.
However, as I said above the change is minimal on this Tarox kit. If you look at the images on my web site, the rotor is larger which in my case contributes the most the bias increase but this is offset by the pistons which are relatively small and this is significant. Tarox engineers their components to maintain the bias condition as close to OEM as possible. I didn't just throw on a big-ass brake kit to look cool. I'll use my car for track sessions as well as street so my main concern was not so much stopping the car as it was dealing with heat. That is the main purpose of any big brake conversion. And obviously it has to work correctly. When I requested a kit for my Spider, Tarox did all the math and specified the components best suited to make it work properly. Unfortunately they gave me the wrong brackets but that was minor. The important thing was that the relationship between brake pressure and torque applied has not been exaggerated.
The kit requires 15" wheels minimum. Variance in wheel offset may already push your wheels out. The kit without spacer only adds 0.2mm per side. On my car however, the track increases 30 mm total (15 per side). This was due to my particular wheels. Without the spacer, the edges of the spokes that convex backwards at about 10 or 15 degrees would contact the outer edge of the caliper. So I had to move the wheel away necessarily. Other wheels may not require that much spacer if any at all.
Pads, I believe they are about $150-$200 per set depending on compound. You don't need to run Tarox pads with Tarox kits though. I have Ferodos but you can probably source a variety of pads that will work.
Balance? You mean brake bias? Yes it does affect the bias. But minimally.
Any time you increase the front rotor diameter you are basically increasing the torque that the caliper can apply to the rotating assembly therefore increasing front braking force. (Torque is force x distance from center or radius and you are increasing the distance with the big discs.) Bias is also affected when you increase the piston area in the calipers (more pistons)
Keep in mind that on a stock system, the rears only contribute to about 15-20% of the overall braking force.
However, as I said above the change is minimal on this Tarox kit. If you look at the images on my web site, the rotor is larger which in my case contributes the most the bias increase but this is offset by the pistons which are relatively small and this is significant. Tarox engineers their components to maintain the bias condition as close to OEM as possible. I didn't just throw on a big-ass brake kit to look cool. I'll use my car for track sessions as well as street so my main concern was not so much stopping the car as it was dealing with heat. That is the main purpose of any big brake conversion. And obviously it has to work correctly. When I requested a kit for my Spider, Tarox did all the math and specified the components best suited to make it work properly. Unfortunately they gave me the wrong brackets but that was minor. The important thing was that the relationship between brake pressure and torque applied has not been exaggerated.
The kit requires 15" wheels minimum. Variance in wheel offset may already push your wheels out. The kit without spacer only adds 0.2mm per side. On my car however, the track increases 30 mm total (15 per side). This was due to my particular wheels. Without the spacer, the edges of the spokes that convex backwards at about 10 or 15 degrees would contact the outer edge of the caliper. So I had to move the wheel away necessarily. Other wheels may not require that much spacer if any at all.
Pads, I believe they are about $150-$200 per set depending on compound. You don't need to run Tarox pads with Tarox kits though. I have Ferodos but you can probably source a variety of pads that will work.