Engine Cranking speed

124cso · Post by **124cso** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:28 am

When I bought my 1980 ( battery in the rear) car, it was slow to crank, which I put down to only having a 200 amp battery. I've put in a new 310 amp job but after sitting for a couple of weeks, it cranks too slow to even fire.
Do the rear battery cars crank any slower than the older front battery ones ?
Should I be looking for damaged leads / terminals or a suspect starter ? or ??
When i put a charger on the battery, it took 6.5 amps but soon came back to about 4.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:31 am

you might have a voltage drop between the battery and starter, or you may have a starter with shorted windings. Cranking rpm is usually about 250rpm as I recall. Overadvanced ignition timing can also cause slow cranking

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:43 pm

an easy to install fix could be adding a crankcase to fender wall ground wire.

if that original equipment ground wire down under has failed....which they do....

Boydness · Post by **Boydness** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:34 am

I do not mean to thread-highjack, but I am having this same issue, since I had a new starter (and now the replacement starter) installed.

The starter acts as if the battery is drained and it does not have enough amps. I have a 600+ Cold cranking, which I had tested, after several minutes of not being able to start the car. I had the battery tested in the diagnostics cart of Advance Auto, and it was still putting out 585 CCA. After using my battery charger's "Start" feature for a little assistance, I was able to get the Fiat started. The alternator was charging at 13V.

Everyone blamed the new starter for the issue, hence the reason it was replaced. But, I have nearly the same exact issue, although it does manage to start a little more often now on it's on without the assistance of extra power.

I am starting to think that I have a bad ground, not allowing for a proper full path for the "juice" to the starter.
Where is the ground ('78 1800) off of the block, that the starter uses for it's path?
I want to determine if that is the culprit, before I add an additional grounding strap.

If we are having the same issue, maybe I can save 124cso all of the time and money that I have spent on my starter issue, by determining the true cause of the starter issue...

Boydness

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:06 am

the ground strap is under the left side; it attaches from the body to the bellhousing. Besides testing the battery, test for a voltage drop to the starter and also check the starter amp draw

Boydness · Post by **Boydness** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:12 pm

So Cal Mark wrote: the ground strap is under the left side; it attaches from the body to the bellhousing.

I did not see it when I looked, I will have to look again. Is there an ideal location for attaching a second ground? Like to the passenger side frame rail or something?

So Cal Mark wrote: test for a voltage drop to the starter and also check the starter amp draw

What is the best method to do just that? I can not find a good means of getting to the starter with my Fluke (without a shop lift).

I asked the shop to test the first starter and asked for the results. They said that "it was good", so I asked for exact numbers and they said that they did not write them down/remember.
I asked again with the second starter, but the mechanic that did the install/test was "gone for the day"...

Frankly, I would not even know if the readings were correct, myself. What should I expect to find on the Fiat?

mdrburchette · Post by **mdrburchette** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:45 pm

I've scanned the starter motor specs from my Fiat manual. It should be the same for your year model. You can copy to your computer and blow it up. Hope this helps:

http://gallery.italiancarclub.com/124og ... s.jpg.html

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:52 pm

When the PO removed the air pump on my '78, there were two studs sticking out of the block on the passenger side. either of these make a perfect spot to add a ground strap from the engine to anywhere on the inner fender of the passenger side.

go to auto zone (or similar) and gecher self a 16-20" ground wire with terminal ends on both sides. make it black so no one else is ever confused to believe that somehow it is something other than a ground wire. you can drill a hole most anywhere on that inner fender and fit in a nut/bolt to secure to.

waa laa, you have just added a very important piece of equipment. if you ground wire had somehow failed, this replaces it....instead of the clutch cable....meaning you've fixed a future problem as well.

both of my fiats have this addition. it is quick, simple and easy to install. i never have to worry about not having sufficient ground.

Boydness · Post by **Boydness** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:15 pm

mbouse wrote:go to auto zone (or similar) and gecher self a 16-20" ground wire with terminal ends on both sides. make it black so no one else is ever confused to believe that somehow it is something other than a ground wire. you can drill a hole most anywhere on that inner fender and fit in a nut/bolt to secure to.

That was my plan for the weekend.
I am going to go ahead and replace the other ground off of the battery while I am at it.

Does anyone have an idea as to the length of the positive cable from the battery to the solenoid? I was considering replacing that as well, just for the fact that all cables would be the same age.

racydave · Post by **racydave** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:48 pm

The pos cable actually runs next to your left foot thru the cowl. If you do not buy one specifically for your Fiat, it will probably need to be custom made. Also go to great extremes to isolate and insulate the pos cable. The eng needs to be grounded to the chassis which the battery is attached to. You could actually run grnd cable directly to eng and ground to chassis in 2 spots, at trunk and from eng to inner fender or cowl, use an existing stud. If the eng has a poor grnd, the clutch cable acts as grnd and arcs internally causing a stiff then broken cable. Also cleaned and "tightened" connections to starter, and took burnt wire out of connector to ign switch and butt connectored together, took care of all my starter probs ...

Boydness · Post by **Boydness** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:49 pm

mbouse wrote:When the PO removed the air pump on my '78, there were two studs sticking out of the block on the passenger side. either of these make a perfect spot to add a ground strap from the engine to anywhere on the inner fender of the passenger side.

go to auto zone (or similar) and gecher self a 16-20" ground wire with terminal ends on both sides. make it black so no one else is ever confused to believe that somehow it is something other than a ground wire. you can drill a hole most anywhere on that inner fender and fit in a nut/bolt to secure to.

Problem Solved!!! :cheers:

I added a cable from the smog pump bracket bolt (on the block) to (behind) the multi-ground ring above the wiper fluid bag on the passenger side fender wall.

She starts like a brand new car!.
I think along with changing out the timing belt, adding the extra grond cable, should be the first things that you do after purchasing a Fiat spider.

Thanks for all the assistance.

Boydness

Boydness · Post by **Boydness** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:53 pm

racydave wrote:If the eng has a poor grnd, the clutch cable acts as grnd and arcs internally causing a stiff then broken cable.

Explains why my clutch cable snapped...

If I had known about this, I would have put 2 and 2 together from the start!

124cso should have plenty of ideas now how to correct his issue.

Boydness

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:58 pm

This forum is exactly for these types of issues. Learn from those who tuffed it out.

Glad to know it did you some good. Replacing that green cable would have been a looong undertaking, in more than one way.

Engine Cranking speed

Engine Cranking speed

Re: Engine Cranking speed