University Of Alabama Fiat TC Project

[ClarkTheShark]

So this semester in college has presented me with quite the oppurtunity for some pretty interesting research. I have a class that requires me to make modifications to an engine and see what kind of results i get. Naturally my first instinct was Fiat twin-cam. but the only motors the shop had were honda v-tecs (poser twin cam) and chevy 350's. after a week of pleading with my professor he has agreed to fund a project involving one of my fiat twin cams. The motor will have my usual upgrades, HC pistons, cams, megasquirt FI system, monster valves, 1800 head, lightened rods, crank and flywheel. but the main aspect of my research will be increasing volumetric efficiency. i will do this by porting the heads and manifolds and continually test the head while i make improvements using bench flow-test rig. i have ported heads before, but its regarded as somewhat of an art. now i have the oppurtunity to quantify my gains by specific testing. Also, we have several standalone engine dynos that i plan to gather results from as well. should be a very interesting project and i believe i will come away with a highly tuned custom motor. the dyno im using reads to 200 hp. with a team of engineers and all the equipment we have at our disposal, anyone wanna make bets to see if i hit 200 crank hp by the end of the semester WITHOUT forced induction? we shall see. set my goals high anyways.

[Daniel]

Hi Clark


Sounds like a fun project way cool that you can do this at your University !
In order to get into the 200 HP range you'll need to re shape the combustion
chambers and rev the engine to at least 8 Thousand RPM . I am taking it your
using a 2L if so the stock rods are known for failing with high RPM above the
7k range, On a side note i did take a 2L with stock Rods that were shot peened
to 8k once by accident ( it was starting to feel really good ) but when i looked at the
Tach i let off the pedal and everything was fine this was on my 2nd race engine
2L HC Pistons over sized, Big Cams over 11mm of lift 45mm Side drafts after
market ignition system and header .

If you go with large Valves it will be a waste on the most part
with the stock Cumbustion Shape this design wasn't intended for high flow
or just poor design all to gather not sure what fiat was thinking when they
made the head not to metion the 2 outer cumbution chamber ( 1and 4 )
are not centered with the cylinder / piston sleeve . Maybe you know about all
this already i hope i'm not stepping on your toes here .
I am sure FS will love to see all the details as you go a long maybe you could
include some videos of the dyno runs .

Good Luck

[TulsaSpider]

You have the world's coolest name! I will be very interested in your findings! I hear a lot about the bigger valves being a great upgrade. So in your opinion do they hurt performance?
Clark

[ClarkTheShark]

SLIGHT possibility i may get some H-bar titanium rods. that would be killer. funny you say that about the stock rods... maybe ive had a lucky motor or whatever but the last one i built can rev to 8 without coming unglued. i spent alot of money of machine work and balancing though.

[ClarkTheShark]

well like alot of things you can do to an engine, its a tradeoff. bigger valves, for example, allow more air into the cylinder. downside - bigger hole means lower charge velocity. less charge velocity COULD mean less atomization of fuel. however in my experience the bigger valves do help. although you may not notice it until higher engine load/rpm.

[Daniel]

Hi Tulsa

If you do the next size up on Valve Size its not going to hurt your performance IMO but not really improve
it much either most people seem to think in terms of gaining more power by opening the ports and polish
larger carbs bigger cams headers bigger valves ect but on the TC Fiat Engine the Cumbustion chamber
is restrictive around the valves so placing a larger Valve head in the way of the flow isnt going to give you
the desired effect of more flow when you have something blocking the path to begin with .


Daniel

[Daniel]

Who makes Titantium Rods that fit a Fiat?

[manoa matt]

Daniel, are you refering to the 1800 head? The 2L FI head has larger combustion chambers and is more deshrouded around the valve seat areas. I've been told by a few experts that for an all out 2L engine, to stick with a 2L head. At higher rpms a 1.8L head on a 2L block will fall off from to slower flame propigation due to the squish area...or some such jargon.

[Daniel]

Yes Matt

I agree with you !

The 2L head does flow better but maybe my point was missed all together in order to achive ( lets
say ) Max HP using a NA TC Fiat engine you need to re shape the Combution chamber, make custom
pistons to match the new shape and off set the 2 end Domes on the pistons center with the
Combustion Chamber of the head on top of everything else being changed, Balanced tuned etc .

By the time your done going down this path it's a lot more then most people would invist in to a
project . The racers who are looking for the last few ponys here and there might do it and a few
who are just crazy about making as much power as possible without going the turbo route .
I've had a lot of fun building these engines and tryd a lot of setups but it does add up after a while
i could of used that money for other things so i not so trigger happy any more when it comes to
buying parts for my Fiat besides i dont race any more . I do have fun reading about everyones
projects though and look forward to seeing them get completed and hearing about the results
of there labors i realize its just a hobbie for most on here as for me as well !

[ClarkTheShark]

ill have time to pick which head i want to use. I really dont know if time will permit reshaping combustion chambers though. first thing i want to do is rebuild the motor (rings, bearings, seals, good cleaning, all the normal rebuild stuff), break it in as best i can, and get some baseline values on the dynamometer. i have like 2 dozen heads at my disposal so ill have plenty of ammunition for trial and error when porting and bench flow testing.

[ClarkTheShark]

Who makes Titantium Rods that fit a Fit?

PAECO out of birmingham makes them. his store is 5 min from my house. hes not cheap though. :/

http://www.paeco.com/Connecting%20Rods.htm

[Exit98]

What a cool project. Can I take the course? (Keep in mind I find changing my oil a challenge).

Please let us follow this whole thing. I'd like to see a separate index item just for this.

Good luck!

[TulsaSpider]

Two dozen heads? Holy shnikies!

[narfire]

Do you have access to balance all the stuff in the bottom end? Shaved flywheel?
I noticed a difference in the abillity of the car to spool up just a bit quicker and the balancing definately made a difference.
I currently have a shaved 1800 head on my 2l Fi with the 84.4 HC pistons. Not sure but I might have an issue as there seems to be a bit of a "burble" at idle and I notice it does not seem to pull as well as just after putting it together late last year.After reading about Alvon's engine running with a HC motor and then still working with a compromised head gasket, I'm having a 2L head done up and will be installing it soon I hope. I'm interested to see the difference.
Sounds like a fun project,with no shortage of options.

[Daniel]

Hey Clark

Will you get to try differnet types of inductions and cam profiles etc ? if so this would be really great
feed back to see what the differnece are !
I think this post will generate a lot of interest and your access to the dyno will provide a lot of data
that seems to missing from other posts cant wait to see some of your progress .

Daniel