firearms

[RRoller123]

Tobi that is terrible. Is there no police presence to tamp this down? Minneapolis and St. Paul are looked upon by the rest of the country as sophisticated, progressive cities! What gives? What happens to the perps after they are caught firing off rounds in a populated neighborhood? I would assume that the jails are full of these offenders? Or is it drug gang activity that the police just can't get a handle on? If so, that seems to be the problem all over the country. The demand for hard drugs has fueled a terrible consequence for society in general.

[BEEK]

serbia has killings too, please read articles below

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... ting-spree


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... e/1776191/


Switzerland trails behind only the U.S, Yemen and Serbia in the number of guns per capita; between 2.3 million and 4.5 million military and private firearms are estimated to be in circulation in a country of only 8 million people.

Read more: How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-sw ... z2ogJj1qxK

i too, from time to time hear gunshots. those are from my neighbors target shooting in their back yards, properly and safely. there is a drug problem here too. the community is small, maybe 1 or 2 murders a year. and hose usually stem from domestic issues or robbery, and again involve drugs usually.

[djape1977]

yeah, well, believe it or not, that guy turned out to be a 90's wars veteran with a history of problems and all of people shot were his relatives.
use google translator if you whish to read this
http://www.glas-javnosti.rs/clanak/hron ... a-spavanju

this article also quite well describes the gun laws in serbia
http://www.examiner.com/article/restric ... s-shooting
alhough ending is pure bullshit

anyways, i didn't say it was impossible to happen, just that things that happen in US on regular basis don't happen here. we had no school, mall, movie theatre shootings, no such crimes perpetrated by minors... there are no metal detectors on school entrances and no need for them has arised yet. we don't walk the streets ducking at every firecracker explosion, i can and do feel resonably safe anywhere in this country at day or night, there are no areas of the city that people fear to be in after dark.

also, imho, considering heavy trauma that many people went trough during civil war 1991-1999, it's a miracle that there are not more violent incidents.
yes, we also have a drug users that are desperate and resort to snatching purses, robbing petrol stations etc, but what i saw last night about Seattle on national geographic's "drugs inc" left me speechless. dealing crack cocaine in the open view of police in downtown of a major city is just nuts.

[BEEK]

i agree, our laws are too lenient on most some crimes, and enforcement is marginal at best. if the punishment were more inline with the crimes i think people would be deterred. Europe and other places in the world handle that much better.

when someone shoots somebody we want to analyze their upbringing and place blame on the parents or society, say the person needs help, then say they have rehabilitated themselves and put them back into society to do it again.

we need to make examples of them, public execution of murders. that hopefully would make people think twice. side-note , i would not watch the executions, but that's just me

i dont pretend to have the answers, but disarming the law abiding public is not one in my opinion

[RRoller123]

In New England we had a very recent case of a sex crime perp that was caught and the thing I noted from the media report was that his rap sheet was .... wait for it....... 10 pages long. Are you f'ing kidding me? 10 pages implies being caught for maybe 100 crimes. Why does our society allow such obvious danger to be released among us?

[TX82FIAT]

The guns are not the issue. We also have 320 million people in the US so it will appear to be more frequent than other countries. Serbia for example has 7 million people. It is hard to lock everyone up that commits crimes. In a country of excess consumerism, high standard of living and disparity between haves and have nots. The issue is very complex and we can not get to far from the government enabling people as well as immigration. Think of the standard of living in 50's, 60's, 70's and compare it to today. People want what those around them have. Perceptions of entitlement fuel a new morality. Take a look at stats in the California and Texas penal system on illegal immigrants. See below, chart showing incarceration rate per 100,000 in population. The US is a country that has much for the taking.

1 United States 716
2 Seychelles 709
3 Saint Kitts and Nevis 701
4 U.S. Virgin Islands 539
5 Cuba 510
6 Rwanda 492
7 Anguilla 487
8 Russia 484
9 British Virgin Islands 460 c.
10 El Salvador 425

[NJFIAT1981]

Let me pose a question. The highest crime and murder rates occur in some of our major cities. These cities have the strictest guns laws in the nation. Can anyone tell me which political party runs each of these cities?
Examples here in NJ:
Camden
Trenton
Atlantic City
New Brunswick
Jersey City
Newark
The Oranges
Elizabeth
Just to name a few.

The same problem exists in most other urban centers throughout the country.
These are places that you would not want to travel through no less live in. What is the common thread here?

[RRoller123]

While it is true that the Democrats control these and most other declining cities, even I, a staunch Libertarian/Fiscal conservative, cannot place the violence blame on them directly. After all, they also control some pretty nice cities (SF and Boston). But they certainly do keep control of all the major cities by the existence of a very large permanent underclass, that is bribed into voting for them (as intended) by public policy, and by their control of the public employee unions (although these are admittedly shrinking), buttressed by an elite white guilt-ridden set of LPCS's and an educational system which they have dominated for about 40 years now. But even so, I have a hard time placing the blame for the violence on them. There may be an indirect causal relationship, due to economic decline and decline in general prosperity, but certainly isn't the root core of the problem lack of personal responsibility, and drug addiction? I guess you could pin the drug problem on the Democrats, but even this is a stretch. I don't think the addicts care which party is in power. I just have a hard time thinking the violence is political in nature. Just my opinion, not looking to pick any political fights by any means.

[djape1977]

there are two big questions here:

1. what the hell happened to law inforcement? how come that police has lost control over organised crime in major cities? how come that gang activity can't be stopped? you have whole generations of young people that are pretty much wild, drug crazed and armed.

2. what's going on with society in general that makes young people that appear to be fine on the outside, take up guns and go on a shooting spree? i'm talking here about colombine and newtown. in both cases those teenagers were able to lay their hands on weapons that were legal and that's my objection to gun laws. there is a pattern that repeats itself over and over again.

[fiat218]

there are two big questions here:

1. what the hell happened to law inforcement? how come that police has lost control over organised crime in major cities? how come that gang activity can't be stopped? you have whole generations of young people that are pretty much wild, drug crazed and armed.

2. what's going on with society in general that makes young people that appear to be fine on the outside, take up guns and go on a shooting spree? i'm talking here about colombine and newtown. in both cases those teenagers were able to lay their hands on weapons that were legal and that's my objection to gun laws. there is a pattern that repeats itself over and over again.

1) there prolly paid off ! ( police )
2) mental issues

[RRoller123]

Well I can give you some broad insight into #1. The answer to #2 is anybody's guess.

The problem here in the US is that there has been created a multi-generational dependence upon government, and unfortunately that has not led to relative prosperity for the lower classes, so desperation, envy, etc; has lead to a general state of near anarchy in many neighborhoods. It is also true that in many cities, LA is a good example, the lower classes do not trust the police, after suffering decades of abuse. This is primarily race based. Sad but unfortunately true. Check this out: http://www.fragmentsweb.org/stuff/photking.html

This will also provide some insight: http://blogs.pjstar.com/eye/2012/06/19/ ... -92-riots/

Understand now why many of us we choose to hold onto our 2A rights so dearly? The victims of the 1992 riots were primarily Korean, a little known fact (or I guess just forgotten) in the US. As you can see from the photographs and videos, many Koreans were armed and survived the barbarism, many others were not and they, or their businesses, did not survive.

A similar state of anarchy existed after Katrina; here is some info: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/

Here is another one, pretty sad.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk7xbKmyVQw

and another..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3GZUmBtZkQ

It goes on and on.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRc_FlmW ... 2E6743BB97

Society can transform pretty quickly from serenity to chaos and anarchy.

[fiat218]

Well I can give you some broad insight into #1. The answer to #2 is anybody's guess.

The problem here in the US is that there has been created a multi-generational dependence upon government, and unfortunately that has not led to relative prosperity for the lower classes, so desperation, envy, etc; has lead to a general state of near anarchy in many neighborhoods. It is also true that in many cities, LA is a good example, the lower classes do not trust the police, after suffering decades of abuse. This is primarily race based. Sad but unfortunately true. Check this out: http://www.fragmentsweb.org/stuff/photking.html

This will also provide some insight: http://blogs.pjstar.com/eye/2012/06/19/ ... -92-riots/

Understand now why many of us we choose to hold onto our 2A rights so dearly? The victims of the 1992 riots were primarily Korean, a little known fact (or I guess just forgotten) in the US. As you can see from the photographs and videos, many Koreans were armed and survived the barbarism, many others were not and they, or their businesses, did not survive.

A similar state of anarchy existed after Katrina; here is some info: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/

Here is another one, pretty sad.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk7xbKmyVQw

and another..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3GZUmBtZkQ

It goes on and on.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRc_FlmW ... 2E6743BB97

Society can transform pretty quickly from serenity to chaos and anarchy.

I said that

[RRoller123]

Then I guess I agree with you, Jim.

[fiat218]

Then I guess I agree with you, Jim.

I just don't know all the politics terms lol

[TX82FIAT]

I truly appreciate the viewpoints expressed on this forum. Great stuff from people with different perspectives. This week I'll be taking the kids to a friends ranch to train them on the proper use of a 30-06 Springfield and a 1912 Mauser we have had in our family for generations. While the society has changed, the rifles and the family values have not.