Interesting Bumper Mod on a Spider

[sptcoupe]

When Tom Tjaarda (deigner of our spider, the Pantera and many others) came to Texas as our Italian Car Club's guest in 2007, he gave a great presentation about the design process and what makes certain designs stand out. We also had two lunch meetings with him where ony 5-6 of us attended, which were great because he told some great stories.

I remember his story of the spider's creation. He had very little time, not much guidance at all, and no one working with him. He said he was pulled from another project that never made it to production, that the first drawings were very slow in coming, and that he did not start with any particular shape in mind. He knew it was gojng to be part of the 124 family, but not much more. After the design was done, he never even knew the car was being produced until he saw it on the floor at the Geneva show! We all laughed when he said that when he first saw it he didn't think it was very pretty, but wished he had been wrong like that more often in his career.

Here is a link to photos of all the cars he either designed or was involved in. I think you'll agree that some were pretty weird, and that there are many we would wish had made it to production.

http://www.tom-tjaarda.net/cars.htm

Tom (like Mark) said that successful car designs (meaning big sales numbers) capture the "culture of the day", that timeless designs capture "the culture of a generation", while truly great designs do both, and "become icons of an era". He also distinguished between a "collectible" car and a "classic car". To him, and collectible car may be a really bad (unpopular) design (do I hear Ford Edsel), but becollectible because few were produced, where as a classic is desirable becuase of the design, irrespective of how many were produced.

Interesting perspective from an internationally recognized success in his field, who last we heard was in Turin designing interiors for Honda!

[amsiegel]

Is it time again for a group HUG. It is the Holiday season stop bickering. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people need better glasses though. You should see some of the Mods people do on the website for my other car, Honda Element, (stop laughing). People have removed the seats and made beds out of 2X4's. Which is funny becasue the seats fold down into a bed. Maybe they take lots of naps.

Some mods are just plan stupid especially when there is a kit that fits under the hood.

[maytag]

The majority of the general population is stupid.

see, now, THIS is where I get all hung-up.

I just simply can't beleive that this is true. And I think that this captures the essence of this thread.

I am not "stupid". So why should I assume that my neighbor is? What sets me apart from others? The fact that I happen to like Fiat Spiders? well, okay... yes! But that only holds true as long as I DON'T like MODIFIED Spiders? Huh? So, if I like the two-tone interior, and the tubular bumpers he's created, then I'm thrown back into the "Majority of the Population", whos is STUPID? Not thinkin' I like that.

Are any of y'all motorcycle fans? Ever heard of Pierre Terblanche? if you have, then you know where I'm going with this.

[Gunsmith]

[quote="maytagI just simply can't beleive that this is true. And I think that this captures the essence of this thread.

Are any of y'all motorcycle fans? Ever heard of Pierre Terblanche? if you have, then you know where I'm going with this.[/quote]

You know each morning I wake up and think most people are not stupid and I set out with a smile. Then when I start driving from my home through traffic I realize Manomatt is a commander of the obvious.

[radiopilot]

Are any of y'all motorcycle fans? Ever heard of Pierre Terblanche? if you have, then you know where I'm going with this.

Didn't he work for Volkswagen at Cagiva's Research Center at San Marino under the direction of Massimo Tamburini. When Cagiva decided to sell Ducati to US-based Texas Pacific Group, Pierre Terblanche chose to follow Ducati.

So who was Massimo Tamburini?
Massimo Tamburini is an Italian motorcycle designer for motorcycle companies including: Cagiva, Ducati, MV Agusta; and Bimota, which he founded, together with Bianchi and Morri (BiMoTa).

So what you're telling us is that Pierre was some garage hack designing motorcycles or did he follow some guidance from others similar to the way auto designers follow some guidance or direction from seasoned designers?

I know you're not stupid and no one never implied you were... just saying some of us like the Spider undisturbed and sure there are those that want to throw in a couple of minor mods (something the factory would have done maybe) but the car retains it's looks and style. I've read other car forums where it would be even blasphemous to even put in a cup holder in the car as the original designer excluded it... I know we aren't like that and we have many wonderful mods to prove we aren't stuck up, just some mods offend the eye of others...

And to think.... Since a lot of us can't make it to FFO or West Coast gatherings as we would like to do... I was thinking about an on-line car show where we post 4-6 pics of our cars and others rate them and the top car wins some sort of prize (it's done in other auto forums)... in the end we got to see each other's cars exterior and interior, we would have a rating system about those 'mods' if any or it's total 'stock' ratings... but now I'm not too sure it's a good idea since we might get into a frenzy of ideas and words about our cars no one may like.

Nick

[So Cal Mark]

I don't really care how my car is "rated" by others. I've changed it to look how I want it to look. Whether anyone likes what I've done or not has no effect on my appreciation of the car. Of course, California has always been the center of the universe for car mods and often times the mood is that is just has to be different. Some cars head down the road less traveled, and some cars go over the cliff at the end of that road

[radiopilot]

Mark... I apologize if anything I've said offended anyone here, wasn't my intent.

Regarding 'rating' ones car... isn't that what anyone does when they take the cars to FFO or whatever... if not what's the point of taking the cars if all that's required is the owners gathering and sharing a good time?

My bad for suggesting the on-line car show... bad Nick... bad!!!

[maytag]

So what you're telling us is that Pierre was some garage hack designing motorcycles or did he follow some guidance from others similar to the way auto designers follow some guidance or direction from seasoned designers?

Google did you halfway.
No, pierre was not a "Garage Hack". But yes, a "hack", the way I used the term in the original post: he's just like the rest of us. And he penned what may be the most polarizing motorcycle design of the century. Many hated it, and called him an idiot. They berated him, questioned the firm that hired him, made jokes about his mother and the shape of his head.... and then the bike went on to become one of their best-selling designs.

So as others have said: it's in the eye of the beholder. But to suggest that people who like or dislike a particular design are stupid, based on that alone, is ridiculous. And to suggest that those who get paid to design are the only ones who CAN or SHOULD design, is just as ridiculous.

[pope]

Old Chinese Proverb,

" Those that can design, have jobs! Those that can't, just bitch about them."

[radiopilot]

Old Chinese Proverb,

" Those that can design, have jobs! Those that can't, just bitch about them."

Pope... I think you said it all here... As a design engineer with 30 plus years in the aerospace/military industry with my own company doing work for the US government... I would say I do know a little about what I talk about.

Nick

[maytag]

huh.

well.....

the sense of superiority and sheer arrogance that you are both displaying here is, to me, absolutely dumbfounding.

If I thought either of you would listen, I would continuee to argue my point, which is, essentially, that we are all equal. But since that doesn't seem to register as a possibility to either of you, I'll just let it lie.

I will say, though, as a parting-shot, that I'm dissapointed.
I own (and have owned) many, many collectibles, ranging from Vintage Maseratis and Ferraris, to modern Maseratis. FRom a '67 Cooper 'S', to modern Jaguars. From a '66 Datsun fairlady to a modern Nissan "Track-toy". from a Ducati 748RS to a full-blown Honda Superbike that Miguel hisself setup for me. I've owned a lot of toys. Over 55 cars, and countless bikes. It surprises and dissapoints me that I'd find this sort of 'snobbery' on a FIAT forum. !

[Gunsmith]

Man Maytag I am not getting the whole snobbery thing you are talking about here? There is always plenty of opinions and sarcasm shared on this site but I haven't seen much snobbery going on. Everyone has an opinion about any design because much of it is as much art as it is functionality which I think we can all agree on. Now if someone says they find a particular item stupid it may or may not be stupid but that is the authors take on it and we could all agree or disagree with the adjective. Take the Honda in the above post, few people would say that was not stupid but the owner probably thought it was Awesome! So don't get too bent out of shape over someones initial feeling and expression about something. I design or redesign something nearly everyday and each item or change is perfect, that is until I come up with the next revision.

People are on this site because they love their little Fiat many of whom love everything stock. But there are plenty of other site members with ideas that they just know should be installed or changed. Many of them are just stupid but some of them are Awesome, Marks exhaust, the shorter shifter, the new seat belt guides, etc.

Anyway calm down have a cold something or other and enjoy the opinions and just be glad none of us are your boss or biggest customer.

[bwilson27]

I love the way that bumper looks!
As the late, great Syd Barrett once said; "Please hold on to the steel rail."
In this case, though, possibly aluminum?

[perthling]

Okay, I can't help but weigh in here, back on the original topic. The tube bumpers added to the Spider post-75 were not part of the car's original design - they were driven by additional requirements of the market. Agreed, they could possibly have been designed 'better' but we don't know the exact criteria which led to the final design. Most agree that the tube bumpers detract from the overall design aesthetic, as well as the handling of the vehicle.

This particular owner has chosen a simple design which removes the tube bumpers, and has fitted an alternative arrangement. Again, we don't know the design constraints which led to this solution. I for one have seen a very similar design on a '75 spider in a similar colour, from aluminium (aluminum for you Yanks) and thought it was a neat and attractive solution.

So just as the Fiat Spider may not be everyone's ideal car, this mod may not be everyone's cup of tea. But it is (in my eyes anyway) an improvement over the tube bumpers - even if that improvement is measured only in degrees.

Now, can't we all just get along?

[So Cal Mark]

I guess I missed most of the snobbery going on in this thread, but it's gone off on so many tangents I guess I just glossed over most of it. While I think the original idea about the modded bumpers does look like they were stolen from a handicap stall, I'd like to see it in person to decide whether I like it. One thing I do appreciate is that the owner took something and made it work. I enjoy projects that are low-buck and innovative. One of my favorite tv shows was Junkyard Wars for that reason. Find something and figure out how you can use it without much (or any) expense.
One thing I've learned over the years with mods for Spiders, is that most everyone loves their own mods and dislikes everyone elses'. Trying to develop any product that differs from stock is a real crap shoot, you may not be able to sell a single unit.