Break compensator

[KevAndAndi]

Mark,

As someone who is still in the neutral zone in this debate, I wanted to be certain I understood your rationale for bypass. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it that you feel that even a new compensator, correctly adjusted on a stock-height car, needlessly diverts stopping power from the rear brakes - that any benefit of compensation doesn't justify the loss in contribution from the rears? And are there any other reasons for forgoing the compensator that haven't been mentioned yet?

[phaetn]

I don't want to wade into this on one side or the other except to say that no one has discussed one of the most important aspects of braking performance: tires. Tire compound technology (not to mention tread patterning) has increased so much in the past forty years that I imagine it's much harder to get a tire to lock now than it was in the '60s and '70s, given the same braking force. Cars had lousy tires then; one can easily imagine why a rear brake compensator was necessary, not to mention the cars weren't meant to be driven just on California roads. Thrown in some cold, a touch of snow, and some Italian Alps switch-backs and the compensator may have been a life saver. Just imagine a trip skiing to Cortina with winter boots on and trying to threshold brake.


On my '74 I have a very hard time getting my brakes to lock, front OR rear (compensator still installed). I can spin up the rears in the wet no problem by planting the throttle around near ninety degree corners, and only once has it almost bitten me in the ass when it was a curve (not a corner) that was at slightly higher speed and a bit off camber and where there was a slight elevation shift. Most times I can anticipate the need for opposite lock, but this time it caught me by surprise. I didn't spin out, but I definitely wasn't expecting it!

The only real tests I've done with hard braking effort have been in a straight line with good road conditions. I can't lock them for hell or high water under those circumstances. I can't pretend to have done trail braking in corners in the wet on public roads, or to have taken emergency maneuvers where I'm full on the brakes at high speed and trying to lane shift.

I don't take the car out in the snow. That said, we just had some snow/freezing rain this morning. Maybe I'll take a drive sojourn in my back lane (that doesn't get salted) and see what I can do.

Cheers,
phaetn

[DieselSpider]

I would not test out the car on icy roads if there is any chance of banging it up.

My car has a crease in the gas tank from when the previous owners had the rear lighten and skid around backing off the side of the road creasing the gas tank on a rock after he had the compensator removed which is why he put a new one back in its place renewing all the bushings on the linkage. It was during moderate braking on a curve that he drove regularly and the difference caught him off guard. It is because of seeing the crease with my own eyes along with hearing the previous owners explanation of how it got there that I am inclined towards keeping the compensator in place and in good working order.

[spider2081]

My 1974 Spider break compensator is bad. I'm seeing conflicting advice on the web. Some say bypass it others say bypassing is not a good idea. Should I bypass the rear brake compensator?

Would you ask this question again????

[707kevin]

I need a break compensator for my Jeep too. Damn thing is always breaking.

[So Cal Mark]

spinning out on a curve is far different than locking the rear brakes during a panic stop. I've yet to see a Spider lock the rear brakes even with the compensator bypassed. On all of the canyon runs we've organized, no one has been able to keep up with my Spider and I've never had an issue with rear brakes. In other words, I drive the snot out of that car, flogging it as hard as possible without any issues.
The ideas being thrown out on this thread about safe braking vs shorter distances are completely unfounded and untested. With the development of big brake kits, I've done extensive testing of all of the combinations.
So I won't reply to this thread any longer. If you are happy with 50 yr old braking, keep your car the way it was designed in 1962.
Haters gonna hate, can't change that.

[DieselSpider]

Don't understand why some keep bringing hate and such into what should be a pragmatic discussion of the different experiences folks have with their cars. If a man with a stock spider with the OEM Spec tire sizes at the original ride height tells me the crease in the gas tank is from when he removed the compensator and he describes what I have personally noted on other cars I have owned when the compensator has been compromised or removed I tend to believe him. However I would like to understand the dynamics of why some others do not appear to experience what others across car brands have come to understand as the norm when removing these devices on vehicles manufactured in the 1980's and 1990's. No hate is involved.

[76was124]

Maybe a "break" on the topic is in order?

[bradartigue]

Maybe a "break" on the topic is in order?

Do you guys really find this thread combative? You're getting a pretty good view of opinions here from actual owners:

- keep the thing, it can't hurt
- keep the thing, it's a safety feature
- get rid of it, it has no real purpose
- get rid of it if you use modern brakes front and rear as they do the work it was performing
- replace it with a manual compensation device

And an opinion from a parts/service vendor:

- get rid of it and buy lowering and brake parts to compensate, it has worked in hundreds of cars

We do, in fact, disagree, across the board on these topics, but I thought this was a forum with a bunch of car guys. There is a thin-skinned car forum, try www.alfabb.com for a while.

[phaetn]

It turns out I CAN lock the brakes if the conditions are right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWt4UEzJaJs

Clearly waiting for hell and high water was the problem -- I needed to go the other temperature extreme.

Cheers,
phaetn

[bradartigue]

wow, you really like to twist words and conjure up situations. Insignificant stopping distance? HAHA, you really should drive a car with the brake upgrades and see the difference. I'll be happy to do a side-by-side comparison. Let's drive 40 mph at a brick wall with a predetermined braking point. Your car will end up quite a bit shorter in length than mine when the test is over.
The bottom line is if you're happy with 50 year old braking technology, keep your car just as it is.

This is a discussion about a compensator, not a bunch of "buy it from Mark" upgrades. To achieve your results you have to perform surgery on the braking system, creating compensation through other means. The guy who posted the question has a stock system - and apparently a stock car - and you continue to suggest that a safety part can be removed.

You're the forum moderator, this is your sales forum, you can say whatever you want. In my view you are simultaneously suggesting that someone remove a safety part, or better yet, upgrade to parts you coincidentally sell, and you can't explain how any of it works.

Good riddance.

[toplessexpat]

.... and relax.

Reading back through this thread, I think that people have been talking past each other a little bit. The original request was (and I paraphrase): "I've got a stock car, the compensator has started leaking, should I remove the compensator or replace it?". We've spiraled a little (as we are prone to do as we're all a) passionate about our cars, and b) entitled to our own opinion), and haven't cleanly answered the original question.

What this thread has exposed to my mind is that there is a conflict of interest between that of a vendor and that of the individual. It's not a easy line to tread, and for many of our co-owners it can be confusing (me included). It does appear that (especially in this thread) that line is becoming blurred, and e-motions have run a little high. For sure, the written word can very easily be misunderstood, and language which is soft to one individual can readily be somewhat harsh to another. This has not helped, and the collective here not really addressing the needs of our original poster. I'm not going to try to state a unified opinion here (as I don't think we have one).

For the avoidance of doubt (not that there was any I suspect1) I am an enthusiastic amateur, not a vendor, not a professional mechanic.

Let's take a break (brake? ) from here for now. It is the season of goodwill to all - even people who've put deposits on the new 124 Spider , or who may own Miatas (cue: THAT photo....)

I'm looking forward to enjoying some time over the next couple of weeks with friends and family. Hopefully getting out for a spin in our spider that has a compensator, and our spider that has not. I'll also take the opportunity to wonder at all of the amazing intelligence and insight that is locked up inside fiatspider.com and other forums. Without it, I would most likely have not completed spider #1. Similarly, there's a terrific community on here, a large number of which I've met in real life. Face to face, we simply all get along... let's not forget that when we're online!

Compliments of the Season to You and Yours

Andy

[zachmac]

Gotta agree it's time for everyone to move on.

Brad, like you've not promoted your book here recently, that you sell? Something about glass houses.

Mark, you have to admit if someone is NOT upgrading and at stock height and springs a working compensator is a good idea.

Everyone should take a chill pill, enjoy the holidays and come back relaxed and civil.

BTW, in case anyone actually cares about the OP, I just mailed him a spare new compensator I had on the shelf so looks like he plans to make it work. And yes, in the interestof full disclosure I charged him all of $15 shipped.

[toplessexpat]

We care! Thanks for the update!

$15? A veritable bargain!

[76was124]

Maybe a "break" on the topic is in order?

Do you guys really find this thread combative?

Nope, just an attempt at humour!