Coupe Dyno Run Results

[Zmatt]

It was simply an example. 15 years after Fiat mass-produced a 1.6L 8V motor with 115hp, Toyota mass produced a 1.6L 16V motor (with TVIS and fuel injection) that produced 115 - 120hp. The tuning potential of each wasn't the question, the question was simply "why didn't they go all the way to 16V?" and the answer was that the potential gains would not have justified the cost.

I suppose, but that fact that cars like the honda fit more or less make the same power really annoys me. You would think by now we would have efficient enough engines that even econ cars could get away with more power.

Also, anybody know why even with similar power and weight a modern honda fit is noticeably faster 0-60 than the 124? For some reason when you match up new cars and old cars with similar weight and power the new cars are faster.

[sptcoupe]

Well, I checked all the RWHP guesses that were sent to me, and the winner is none other than our Spider Lady, Denise, who submitted a guess of 147.79 RWHP on October 31st, last year. The closest, on the high side of the actual 150.5 RWHP, was sent in by Dave Eskins, at 155 RWHP. On the low side, the next closest was 145 RWHP, sent in by Wayne Mausbach. As I mentioned in the original post, 28 of the 33 guesses were below 140 RWHP.

So Denise, do you want me to bring a case of a good Texas beer to FFO, or do you have a particular brand beer you want me to send to you beforehand?

[pastaroni34]

Also, anybody know why even with similar power and weight a modern honda fit is noticeably faster 0-60 than the 124? For some reason when you match up new cars and old cars with similar weight and power the new cars are faster.

Its not about absolute power figures.. they don't mean a whole lot. Its about the total amount of power under the curve, and thats what a good modern engine produces. Take a look at something like a BMW N52 motor. 180lbft of torque (almost max) at the wheels from 1800rpm to 6000rpm, totally flat. Even on a high performance Fiat motor it will be 3000rpm before you meet maximum torque and it will die off quickly thereafter. These results are a direct result of variable valve timing, variable intake runner lengths, variable ignition maps, knock sensors, etc..

There have also been big changes in the way cars are geared.

[mdrburchette]

So Denise, do you want me to bring a case of a good Texas beer to FFO, or do you have a particular brand beer you want me to send to you beforehand?

Surprise me, Jeff, but you better make sure you're there at Freakout this year or I'm coming down to Texas to settle the score.

[sptcoupe]

Uh Oh! No way I can flake out now! I've actually registered all three cars, and will be part of the Houston/Dallas caravan making the trip. Also signed up for the Tail of the Dragon run on Thursday.

[brunorahl]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what does that come out to in dollars per pony?

[mdrburchette]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what does that come out to in dollars per pony?

You don't EVEN want to go there....

[brunorahl]

I'm sure it's more than any sane person would spend, but let's face it. We're Fiat people and sane just isn't a description of us,

[sptcoupe]

I have had a good number of emails asking that same question, and an equal number asking what was included in the "project".

This is the third (and last) "conservation" effort on the coupe in the 23 years we have owned it. So the coupe is really a family affair.

The body/cosmetic work included a paint job (same color), all chrome re-done, Rota 15" wheels (and new tires), a custom hood liner, and a few pieces of weather stripping replaced.

The chassis/suspension work included replacing the stock crossmember with a reinforced 2.0L unit for addtional under hood clearance and strength, custom chassis bracing for stiffness, a heavier front sway bar, Konis all around, rebuilt tranny, new suspension parts, Whoa (Wilwood) brake conversion with 4-piston calipers in front, new rear end housing, new rear axles/bearings and re-built pumpkin.

The engine inlcuded the 2.0L unit with the following performance mods:

To the head: Ported/CCd head, 42/82 forged cams, Guy Croft tapered valve guides, big valves/springs, Allison "snake" header with custom downstream exhaust system, SDS fully programmable FI system, 40mm throttle bodies on a modified Piece intake manifold, custom fuel rail, steel braided fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump, custom air filter box and cold air indcution plumbing, adjustable, aluminum cam pulleys, and custom throttle linkage

To the bottom end: custom

[sptcoupe]

I have had a good number of emails asking that same question, and an equal number asking what was included in the "project".

This is the third (and last) "conservation" effort on the coupe in the 23 years we have owned it. So the coupe is really a family affair.

The body/cosmetic work included a paint job (same color), all chrome re-done, Rota 15" wheels (and new tires), a custom hood liner, and a few pieces of weather stripping replaced.

The chassis/suspension work included replacing the stock crossmember with a reinforced 2.0L unit for addtional under hood clearance and strength, custom chassis bracing for stiffness, a heavier front sway bar, Konis all around, rebuilt tranny, new suspension parts, Whoa (Wilwood) brake conversion with 4-piston calipers in front, new rear end housing, new rear axles/bearings and re-built pumpkin.

The engine inlcuded the 2.0L unit with the following performance mods:

To the head: Ported/CCd head, 42/82 forged cams, Guy Croft tapered valve guides, big valves/springs, Allison "snake" header with custom downstream exhaust system, SDS fully programmable FI system, 40mm throttle bodies on a modified Piece intake manifold, custom fuel rail, steel braided fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump, custom air filter box and cold air indcution plumbing, adjustable, aluminum cam pulleys, and custom throttle linkage

To the bottom end: custom

[sptcoupe]

I have had a good number of emails asking that same question, and an equal number asking what was included in the "project".

This is the third (and last) "conservation" effort on the coupe in the 23 years we have owned it. So the coupe is really a family affair.

The body/cosmetic work included a paint job (same color), all chrome re-done, Rota 15" wheels (and new tires), a custom hood liner, and a few pieces of weather stripping replaced.

The chassis/suspension work included replacing the stock crossmember with a reinforced 2.0L unit for addtional under hood clearance and strength, custom chassis bracing for stiffness, a heavier front sway bar, Konis all around, rebuilt tranny, new suspension parts, Whoa (Wilwood) brake conversion with 4-piston calipers in front, new rear end housing, new rear axles/bearings and re-built pumpkin.

The engine inlcuded the 2.0L unit with the following performance mods:

To the head: Ported/CCd head, 42/82 forged cams, Guy Croft tapered valve guides, big valves/springs, Allison "snake" header with custom downstream exhaust system, SDS fully programmable FI system, 40mm throttle bodies on a modified Piece intake manifold, custom fuel rail, steel braided fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump, custom air filter box and cold air indcution plumbing, adjustable, aluminum cam pulleys, and custom throttle linkage

To the bottom end: custom

[sptcoupe]

Not sure what happened with the multiple posts, so sorry about that. Here is the rest of the story.

Bottom end: Custom made, forged aluminum 84.8 mm pistons, Curillo rods, lightened and shaped crank, new oil pan with custom baffling, and all closely balanced.

The cost of the engine is about $11K, so with 150.5 RWHP, that is about $73 per pony at the wheels. With a 10% driveline friction loss, it is about 165 HP at crank, or about $66 per pony. With a 20% friction loss, it is about 180 HP at the crank, or about $61 per pony.

We also had to do some extra work after some set backs. The gasket bewtween the block and the oil filter housing blew at 7000 rpms on the last run of the first dyno session. Ouch - new rods, bearings and clean up of the bores. The first clutch came apart during the break-in miles. We also to have a second set of TB air horns made to get it to breath fully, and re-route the cold air induction plumbing a number of times for the same reason. And after we saw how fast and high it revved, we had the forged pistons done and lowered the CR by going from 4.5mm domes to 2mm domes. And all the lightening and custom aluminum components added no HP, but man, it revs really quickly! So all this raised the engine cost and added no new HP.

Not for the faint of heart, and no guarantee you will get what you hoped to get, but we wnated the coupe to be reliable, tossable and quick, and still be a FIAT at heart by staying with the Lampredi TC in naturally aspirated form. We did look at other engine (FIAT and non FIAT) options.

And no, I have no expectation of getting my mony back, but will never sell the car anyway. To me, you do this sort of thing to our FIATS because when you put your foot in it on your favorite twisty, the smile factor is the only reward you care about.

Hope this helps anyone considering going down this road.

Jeff

[brunorahl]

So a stock 2.0 pushed 100hp, if you're lucky and push 180hp, that's only 80hp over stock. At $11K for 80hp, that's more like $137.50 for each extra pony. At 165hp it's almost $170 for each pony. That's assuming the guy you paid to build it didn't adjust the dyno to show better numbers. A process that takes only seconds. Have you gotten independent confirmation?

[gary124sport]

We all know the guy who built it and he is one of the most unassuming, honest and well know Fiat people around. i am more than sure that these numbers are conservative. There is even a Youtube video of the initial dyno runs. Jeff and many of us are in this for the love of the cars - not for the investment value. I've (or should I say my 84 year old dad) have owned mine since new in 1968 - almost 42 years now - and I've easily poured four times what my dad paid for the car when he purchased it. In 20 years when my sons take over the car from me as I did from my dad 20 plus years ago is when I'll get my return on my investment. Jeff is THE icon for all of us to follow!! Bravo on this latest advancement!!

Gary Poage

[sptcoupe]

As I said in my post, what I did is not for the faint of heart, and I have no expectation of ever getting a penny of it back. And by the way, an 80 HP increase over a base of 100 HP is pretty spectacular in a car the weighs a bit less than 2200 lbs. How about a power to weight change of 22 lbs per HP, to 12.2 lbs per HP. Kinda' like going from a stock FIAT to a Mustang, and the difference in the smile factor is even more dramatic than that. And we did four long sessions on one dyno with me present at two of them, and got extremely consistent results over a period of 4 months, then two sessions on a dyno in a competing shop, and got he same results. The dyno was corrected to 5%, and some pretty serious race teams use it, so I am very confident the results are as good as you would get anywhere. And as we all now, comparing one dyno to another dyno is is fairly meaningless exercise anyway.

But this isn't about how much HP the engine is making, or who has the fastest car, or who spends more or less on their cars - and especially isn't about mine or anybody else's integrity. its' about having fun with our cars and letting others in this family learn from our experience.

By the way, I just drove it, and that 80 HP difference really is spectacular.