New Dyno Results for the old E Prod Racer, now NASA PT-A

[engineerted]

Bill,

Thanks for posting information on your setup, us racers need all the help we can find, and those dam Miatas are fast!
What size wheels are you running? I know the EP Spider can run 15" but there have been some debate on whether or not they have any advantage over the 13" wheels. For me i have no choice but to run with 13's, I am going to try running 20x9-1/2"x 13 goodyears and a small sway bar in the rear.


Looking forward to the suspension photos.

Ted

[madoc05]

I'm running 20x9.5-13 hoosier r45s. I would like to see what you run for springs and shocks. I have KYB Gr-2s at the moment, whats the way to go when i look to upgrade.

[E Prod Racer]

Ted, Madoc,
The wheels on the car right now are 13X7 Compomotives, but I have a set of 15X7 Panasports from when the car was set up for EP. I bought the 13s when I was going to move the car to FP (no 15s allowed in FP on the Spider), and left that set up (ride height, mostly) in place when I rebuilt the car for NASA PT-A. I have Hoosier 20-9.5-13 R55s on now, which I really like. For me, the R45 is too soft, won't last more than a weekend, and can't tell the difference in grip between the two. With the 15s, I used Goodyear 23-9.5-15 R475s, which I liked much better than any Hoosier 15s. The 15s give a slightly deeper contact patch, which yields better braking, but overall I am happy with the handling and braking on the 13s, so will probably stay with them.

There is a 1" adjustable sway bar up front, with 550# 5.5" diameter springs, and revalved KONI Yellows. Rear is a special coilover conversion Miata front Koni Yellow specially revalved and converted for me by KONI in Hebron, KY, with 2.5" diameter 240# springs and no swaybar. The handling is neutral, even without a rear bar. Like a really big go-cart. Front lower control arms are reinforced stock units that are mounted in a reworked crossmember to move the pickup points up 1" higher. The rear is the stock FIAT live axle reworked for the coilover conversions, and the tri-link with wishbone location link. All bushes are solid, and all links are circle track billet arms that are rod-ended. I will have picts up on the web when I can get the car up on the lift for the shots.

[engineerted]

Madoc,

Welcome, good to see another Fiat racer, where are you located?

My setup: 600# front springs 5"x9" with 1/2 coil cut off, 1" sway bar, delrin bushings, modifided front cross member lower pick up moved up, just like Bill's, koni yellow set at full hard. Rear 225# 5"x13" coil, kyb shocks, hiem joint top trailing arms, stock lower arms, custom 1-1/4 dia hiem joint panhard bar, and welded rear diff.


Ted

[azygoustoyou]

Great looking car. I would like to see more pic's of the body. The rear especially. Thanks

[BEEK]

Wow you guys are using heavy rated springs. granted my experiance comes from circle track. but i raced a 124 coupe for 5 or so years there very sucessfully. 52 wins 2 championships then i went to late models. but in comparrison
the fiat used 350lb front springs and 200lb rears 5.5 in ft 5.0 in rear. body roll was never an issue. and i beat the heck out of everyone in the turns. granted there was a 25lb split in the front actually. on my late model big spring car 2800 lbs v8 ect.
only run 450lb / 475lb ft, and 200,225 rear. still handles great, only a 1.25" front bar. my coil over cars were very different but the spring packages wont realy translate. but now im very interested in your findings. im going to build / prepair a lancia scorpion for road race. not sure where its going to fall rules wise. thinking nasa, as thier rules will accomindate almost anything i can come up with. the car will probably be overclassed by what my plans are , but its for me. not worried about race wins and such.

[E Prod Racer]

Beek,
The spring rates used these days are much stiffer than in the past, as the available shock damping rates have been increased. It DOES add up to much better cornering speeds. It also necessitates a much stiffer chassis, so the cages these days are also very stiff, to make the whole package work in harmony. Violent harmony.

I believe that when John Baucom won the SCCA National title in his EP Spider 2000, he was on 700# front springs and 300# rears. On my Spider, I have reinforced the pinch weld on the outer sills, and use this area to support the car for service on 4 heavy duty jack stands. If I don't have the stands on a perfectly level surface, it will teeter totter diagonally - even a 1/16" off. The chassis is very stiff.

If you will be building a Scorpion, you will need to talk to my Brother. He and a friend have two very nicely developed FP SCCA Racers. Send me a P.M. for details.

[E Prod Racer]

Pictures, Pictures. I now have 25 pictures of the Spider 2000 racer up on my website.

http://www.macautosport.com/index.php?o ... itemId=956

[madoc05]

Madoc,

Welcome, good to see another Fiat racer, where are you located?

My setup: 600# front springs 5"x9" with 1/2 coil cut off, 1" sway bar, delrin bushings, modifided front cross member lower pick up moved up, just like Bill's, koni yellow set at full hard. Rear 225# 5"x13" coil, kyb shocks, hiem joint top trailing arms, stock lower arms, custom 1-1/4 dia hiem joint panhard bar, and welded rear diff.


Ted

I'm out of Rochester NY, but I run both NE and GLD. I bought the car from Matt and Mark Downing (Ohio) last June, the story goes that the car has never touched the streets been a race car it's whole life. was their fathers who wrecked it at Nelson in 86 I think, it then went into storage where it sat until they pulled it out and rebuilt it, Mark ran in for a few years then built another car, and it went back into storage until I bought it. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of knowledge about Fiats so I'm trying to learn as I go. It's an awesome car (I've raced a several other cars before this one) I know that it has a mild bottom end build I think 12:1 at 40 over, some sort of mild port and polish with big cams when I bought it they told me but I have forgotten now, modified front cross member, hiem jointed trailing arms, 131 transmission with welded diff, adjustable rear sway bar, with 1 inch front bar, andlancia delta rotors, I wish I knew what it had for springs, last I talked with Mark he had forgotten. I'm in the process of repainting but once I finish I'll post pictures.

[engineerted]

Madoc

I know that car. I almost bought that car from Matt, but at the time he did not want to let it go for $1500 that i offered.

Also as of June 1st you can run twin 40 idfs in FP with 32mm chokes, I wrote a letter to the CRB and and yes they approved.

Ted

[E Prod Racer]

Ted,
Interesting thing about the ruling for for 40IDFs with 32mm venturis. I asked for that 4 years ago, and they gave me 28mm chokes - not enough for me to bother building a 1756. I still have the late, late 1.8L block that has the nitrided crank and the 2L style front dampner (to allow me to swap my 2L crankfire dampner onto the crank nose..).

I had also asked for the Pinin brakes as a substitute for the allowed Lancia rotors (do they exist?)upgrade (257mm diameter vs. 253mm - big upgrade!), and they turned me down on that one, too. The comp board insisted that the Pinin brakes were 4 pot caliper, vented rotor monsters that would "upset the balance in EP and FP"! Combine that with at least 4, count them, 4 separate rulings on asymetrical rollcage main hoop standards, and I just couldn't play the SCCA game any longer.

NASA is a much more friendly crowd, with very good competition, and their rule book is refreshingly thin, mostly devoted to classing cars by Power to Weight - how simple is that? NO catering to Mazda, or any other Manufacturer. Much, much better. A true joy to attend a race weekend. Leave the politics to CNN, FOX News, and the SCCA Comp Boards....

Maybe SCCA relented on the IDFs with 32 chokes because they have seen their numbers move over to NASA in droves....

[engineerted]

Bill,

I think the SCCA looked at the number of Fiat 124's running and figured that we are no real threat to the leaders in FP, plus I pointed out that the Lancia's are running the same motor and are allowed 36 chokes in either down or side draft. There is still an outstanding request for 34 chokes from myself and others, but no ruling yet. I think they are wating to see if any improvment in times or finish place due to the new chokes, before increasing size any further. Now only if Fiat would sponcer the new 500 in a racing series, i due believe they are in europe.

NASA does seem like a more friendly crowd, but not that popular here in Michigan. My racing has been restricted to just the Waterford Hills track for now, I was a novice last year and I do now possess a full comp licence that is good for any Regional event, but you can't beat the price and # of races at Waterford, $150 and three races per week end.



Ted

[Mathew26]

Look at the good looking #93 car with that beautiful VAS sticker behind the wheel.

[engineerted]

Hey Matt, what do i get for all that free advertising? A few simple things come to mind (Bacci Romano racing transmisson, 1.8L racing rods or pistons, you know something small)

The car is unchange externaly from when Lisa Boyd was driving it in Texas. Do you have any of those VAS stickers? The drivers side one has some nice black wheel marks running thru it from a nissan that used me as a guard rail last year.

Ted

[Mathew26]

Hey Ted, send me a PM with your address and I'll be you a bunch of stickers and what not. I'll also include the racers advertising info.