New Rack & Pinion

[Daniel]

I seen some guys do the 131 Rack into the 124 now i am seeking to go down this path as well but can't
find a new 131 Rack has anyone used something else that makes sense . I looked at the X1/9 Rack it's
shorter then the 131 rack not sure how this would work .

[v6spider]

I believe the rack you are speaking of is the same one used in the Pininfarina spider. You'll need to get the cross-member from that spider, the tie-rod ends, and whatever steering linkage that reaches from the column to the rack and you should be able to do it as a bolt-in modification. I think these parts are available new, however I think it would be an expensive way to do it. Ideally, if you were to come across these parts used, like in a junkyard, that would be the way to go. What I am curious about is if the 131 cross-member and all the other parts I mentioned are the same as the Pininfarina spider.

UPDATE: Dude here's the answer - http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic ... 11&start=0

Cheers!
Rob

[MNspiderman]

You should mention that Turbo124 is primarily right hand drive. But the same concept except that some things might be different based on exhaust and intake manifold setups. So if your going rack from an Alfa GTV6 then if you wanted you might as well step it up and get a rack from a Milano but with power assist. They are the same rack with the exception of power assist.

[Daniel]

I believe the rack you are speaking of is the same one used in the Pininfarina spider

From my understanding (this is by asking around so far ) the 85 spider are using a different rack
and the guys who own them are having issues finding replacements .


I was thinking of trying a Pinto or some other rack, this is all new to me never did a mod on a
car like this before .

MNspiderman

Alfa GTV6

Any ideals where to locate a GTV Rack other then IAP ?

[v6spider]

Daniel:
I am using a 72 pinto rack on my V6 Modified spider. Out of necesssity more than anything else. Basically you just need to modify the cross-member so that you can mount the rack to it. I used the Pininfarina tie-rod ends for the 85. I just drilled and tapped it for the threads on the pinto rack. Luckly with a little prying of the u-joint clamp on the column shaft I was able to fit it to the steering shaft.

Hope this helps!

MNspidermann: Thanks for the info! I have read about the 131 rack mod I wasn't aware that there were others!

Rob

[unplugged]

I have been toying with trying this myself.
Instead of trying to source a Brava or Alfa Rack which are hard to find there are sources for custom built units.
As long as you know what dimensions you need.
Just google, "custom rack and pinion".
I was surprised how many options came up.

[Daniel]

Rob

Where did you get your hands on some 85 tie rod ends ? thanks for the tip !


unplugged
thanks for the tip
I checked custom racks, seems to be an endless number of sites selling Racks just was hoping
for a mass production part to keep the price and selection of parts easy to find .

[GrantAB]

you might want to check with Speedway motors.com...they have pinto- mustang 2 rack and pinion units plus many other suspension parts for a custom front end

[v6spider]

Daniel:

I got the rack from my local wrecking yard for $30.00 and the tie rod ends from International Auto Parts ....Don't recall the price on them but it wasn't too expensive.

Rob

[Daniel]

the tie rod ends from International Auto Parts

Ok Thanks again Rob ill give them a call this week !



Cool Grant I'll check these guys out !

[Daniel]

This Speed way company has good prices on Mustang II and Pinto Racks every where i've check was more for rebuilt
units these are brand new . The only thing i can't tell what are on the Rack Rod ends ? is this threaded for a tie rod
ends ? Maybe i can use the Mustang tie rod ends as well ? check None Power the ends have a some kind of odd tip

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustang-I ... ,2112.html

[v6spider]

Daniel: you can't use the the musttang. Tierod ends as they do not have the same taper as the fiat steering arms. You will have to use the tierod ends for the pininfarina and thread them for the rod ends on the pinto rack.

Rob

[FiatMac]

The rack you use must be from a car that has the spindle steering arms behind the axle. The Mustang and Pinto racks are designed for steering arms in front of the spindle I believe. If installed as normal in the Spider, this would result in reverse steering. V6spider's suspension was completely redone due to the engine configuration, and his steering arms were remounted to the front of the spindles based upon the pictures I see on his webpage.

Stan McConnell

[v6spider]

Interesting point...I had to think about that for a minute. The pinion would have to ride on the top of the rack to go the right direction for behind axle center. The pinto rack's pinion rides on the underside of the rack.So for the spider it has to be a rack that is for behind axle center. The pinto rack won't work. I think the Chevy Chevette has a rack that is mounted behind axle center...Not sure... I do know that most of the Japanese imports that are rack and pinion are usually behind axle center.

Thanks Stan!

UPDATE: Gents just found this on http://www.unisteer.com

Check it out - custom Racks: http://www.unisteer.com/seach_by_vehicl ... inion.html

Cheers!
Rob

[unplugged]

I took some measurement from a rack I believe is off a Bravo.
I bought it a while ago with this project in mind and that is how it was sold to me.
If anyone can independently confirm that would be great. most everything is +/- 1/8" or so except as noted.

Total length of rack Not including outer tie rod ends was 24". Each tie rod was 1' (end to end) +/- 1/4" Tie rod ends are threaded so length is adjustable slightly.
Total length therefore was 48" tip to tip.
Rack body was 16-7/8" end to end.
Steering pintle was at an angle of 18deg.
Rack is Rear Drive, i.e. for mounting behind axle. Clockwise revolution pushes rack to the left.
Rack Travel was 5-1/4" lock to lock which took 3-1/4 turns.

Existing 81 spider was 44" from outside of tie rod at wheel to outside of tie rod end on opposite side.
Which is 4" shorter then the rack. The overall length of rack is slightly adjustable as the ends are threaded on.
Not sure if it can be adjusted 2" each side but this is nothing a hack saw can't fix.

Existing 81 spider is 2-3/4 turns lock to lock. Total travel on existing spider is approx. 5-1/4" (+/- 1/4")
So existing steering is 1.9"/revolution. Rack is 1.6"/revolution. So more turns are needed to go lock to lock with rack.
If ordering a custom rack it may be desirable to to get a ration closer to the stock ratio.

The custom unisteer rack looked interesting in that you could get it with inner tie rods only in metric thread which would may allow use of the existing tie rods. It says it comes in different rations as well so that might be good too.

Now if only it was cheaper.

My understanding is that when doing this conversion the bottom of the rack is mounted approx. level with the bottom of the x-member, which is 3-4" lower than the current arrangement. Can anyone comment on if the different geometry will contribute to more bump steer? Depending on the path of the exhaust it maybe possible to mount it higher.

On my current car the exhaust header downpipe will be an issue. Some consideration on the heat off the exhaust pipe should be given as well if they end up being close together. I am not qualified to offer an opinion on this.