124 Coupe
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ventura ace
To address some differences between the 1.8L cylinder head (132 block) and the 1608, 1438cc heads (125 and 124 blocks), here are a few pictures. First a shot of all 3: 1608 on left, 1.8L in middle, and 1438 on the right.
You can see that the 1608 and 1438 are pretty much identical, and the 1.8L is very similar except for the water jacket holes at the front of #1 cylinder that Dan referred to. The next picture shows the 1.8L and 1.4L heads side by side, with a 1.4L / 1.6L head gasket overlaid each of them. You can see that the 1.8L large water jacket hole was narrowed and moved outboard to make room for the larger 84mm cylinders that sit underneath the head. (Sorry, I don't have a spare 1.8L head gasket to show where the cylinders would sit - you'll just have to imagine). You can also see from this picture that Fiat left the location of the cylinder head chambers in the same place for the 132 block engines (1592, 1.8L, 2.0L) as for the 124 / 125 block engines (1438cc and 1608cc), even though the pistons were spaced out wider on the 132 blocks. This means that the spark plugs are directly centered on all 4 pistons for the 1438cc and 1608cc engines, but there is some offset of the spark plugs to the piston on the 1592, 1.8L, and 2.0L engines, especially on the outer #1 and #4 pistons.
The next 2 pictures show closer shots of the front water jacket hole on the 1438cc and 1.8L heads. The large hole routes water around the top of the cylinder head chambers, and the smaller hole goes directly into the area where the in-head thermostat rests, or on out the front neck to the upper hose T for the external thermostat design. This smaller hole is off to the left on the 1.8L head, but located down inside the large water passage on the 1438cc head. Both designs have another smaller hole to the right of the large water passage, that also does directly into the thermostat cavity, and you can see how this hole was moved slightly outboard on the 1.8L head, to get away from the wider spaced, larger pistons.
My opinion, from looking at these heads is that large water passage on the 1438cc / 1608cc heads would interfere with the head gasket and front cylinder on a 132 block engine. I believe I've heard of folks welding up the passage and redrilling it like the 1.8L head when using the earlier heads with the 132 block engines. There would be no gains in Compression Ratio, to my knowledge, since all of these heads had about 49cc volume for the chambers. The 2.0L head has larger chambers, about 52-53cc, so substituting the smaller 49cc chamber heads on a 2.0L block would give an increase in CR.
I'm guessing that the 1592 head has a similar front water port to the 1.8L head, since the pistons are spaced wider for that 132 block engine. If that's so, then the 1592 head could probably be used on the 1.8L engine as a direct replacement. CR increase?? I don't think so, assuming that the 1592 head chamber volumes are also 49cc (don't know that for sure though).
Any corrections to the above are gladly accepted.
alvon
You can see that the 1608 and 1438 are pretty much identical, and the 1.8L is very similar except for the water jacket holes at the front of #1 cylinder that Dan referred to. The next picture shows the 1.8L and 1.4L heads side by side, with a 1.4L / 1.6L head gasket overlaid each of them. You can see that the 1.8L large water jacket hole was narrowed and moved outboard to make room for the larger 84mm cylinders that sit underneath the head. (Sorry, I don't have a spare 1.8L head gasket to show where the cylinders would sit - you'll just have to imagine). You can also see from this picture that Fiat left the location of the cylinder head chambers in the same place for the 132 block engines (1592, 1.8L, 2.0L) as for the 124 / 125 block engines (1438cc and 1608cc), even though the pistons were spaced out wider on the 132 blocks. This means that the spark plugs are directly centered on all 4 pistons for the 1438cc and 1608cc engines, but there is some offset of the spark plugs to the piston on the 1592, 1.8L, and 2.0L engines, especially on the outer #1 and #4 pistons.
The next 2 pictures show closer shots of the front water jacket hole on the 1438cc and 1.8L heads. The large hole routes water around the top of the cylinder head chambers, and the smaller hole goes directly into the area where the in-head thermostat rests, or on out the front neck to the upper hose T for the external thermostat design. This smaller hole is off to the left on the 1.8L head, but located down inside the large water passage on the 1438cc head. Both designs have another smaller hole to the right of the large water passage, that also does directly into the thermostat cavity, and you can see how this hole was moved slightly outboard on the 1.8L head, to get away from the wider spaced, larger pistons.
My opinion, from looking at these heads is that large water passage on the 1438cc / 1608cc heads would interfere with the head gasket and front cylinder on a 132 block engine. I believe I've heard of folks welding up the passage and redrilling it like the 1.8L head when using the earlier heads with the 132 block engines. There would be no gains in Compression Ratio, to my knowledge, since all of these heads had about 49cc volume for the chambers. The 2.0L head has larger chambers, about 52-53cc, so substituting the smaller 49cc chamber heads on a 2.0L block would give an increase in CR.
I'm guessing that the 1592 head has a similar front water port to the 1.8L head, since the pistons are spaced wider for that 132 block engine. If that's so, then the 1592 head could probably be used on the 1.8L engine as a direct replacement. CR increase?? I don't think so, assuming that the 1592 head chamber volumes are also 49cc (don't know that for sure though).
Any corrections to the above are gladly accepted.
alvon
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bandit
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bandit
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ventura ace
"Looks like my post is getting high jacked"
Sorry, Dan.
Just trying to clear up the question about the 1608 head on the 1800 block for the 124 coupe for sale on Craig's List. Nice looking car. Price is on the high end, but probably every bit of what it would cost to put a car in that condition, if not a lot more.
Here is one on the lower end that was posted on the Mira Forum. I saw this car at FFO in NC a few years ago. Looks fairly nice for the price(especially the interior), though it appears to have picked up some rust. Following is a copy of Chris's post.
"I am posting my 1970 124 Coupe for sale. Ideally, I would like to keep the
engine & transmssion (perfect, stock 1608 & good push-reverse style 5-speed),
but I'm open to offers. Right now, it's got a roof rack on it (which I need to
keep) and the grille + high beams + bezels + bumper are currently off the car
(and safe in my basement). The body is no prize, but with the repairst that
you can see in the photos it's basically solid except for the rust line in the
trunk edge above the bumper. The rust repair would need to be cleaned up &
made pretty if you wanted a show car (which, this really is not & never will
be.) The car has had a rich life, once apparently being a drug runner in
western US & then slowly making its way east with various go-fast parts being
swapped out mostly for stock pieces. Part of the add-ons that were deleted
included custom ground effects & you just have to trust me in saying the car is
much nicer without them. Electrically, the car is good & is full of subtle
improvements the likes of which you'd expect on a car owned by long-time FIAT
enthusiasts (extra grounds, a spider steering column, etc.). The front
suspension is worn, but I use it as an occaisional driver regularly & enjoy the
heck out of it. The red interior is in perfect shape & the carpet is new.
The wheels are 13" cromadoras w/ good tires + a matching spare. The dash &
consoles (btw, the upper console is included...it's just not in the photo) were
all recovered at some point in the past & are actually free of rips/cracks.
The glass is all good. So, I could ramble further about the car, but instead
let me give a URL for photos. Without the 1608 & transmission, I'm thinking
about 800$. Other configurations? Let me know what you have in mind... Check
out the pictures:
http://www.eccentricauto.com/sub/1970-124coupe/ "
alvon
Sorry, Dan.
Just trying to clear up the question about the 1608 head on the 1800 block for the 124 coupe for sale on Craig's List. Nice looking car. Price is on the high end, but probably every bit of what it would cost to put a car in that condition, if not a lot more. Here is one on the lower end that was posted on the Mira Forum. I saw this car at FFO in NC a few years ago. Looks fairly nice for the price(especially the interior), though it appears to have picked up some rust. Following is a copy of Chris's post.
"I am posting my 1970 124 Coupe for sale. Ideally, I would like to keep the
engine & transmssion (perfect, stock 1608 & good push-reverse style 5-speed),
but I'm open to offers. Right now, it's got a roof rack on it (which I need to
keep) and the grille + high beams + bezels + bumper are currently off the car
(and safe in my basement). The body is no prize, but with the repairst that
you can see in the photos it's basically solid except for the rust line in the
trunk edge above the bumper. The rust repair would need to be cleaned up &
made pretty if you wanted a show car (which, this really is not & never will
be.) The car has had a rich life, once apparently being a drug runner in
western US & then slowly making its way east with various go-fast parts being
swapped out mostly for stock pieces. Part of the add-ons that were deleted
included custom ground effects & you just have to trust me in saying the car is
much nicer without them. Electrically, the car is good & is full of subtle
improvements the likes of which you'd expect on a car owned by long-time FIAT
enthusiasts (extra grounds, a spider steering column, etc.). The front
suspension is worn, but I use it as an occaisional driver regularly & enjoy the
heck out of it. The red interior is in perfect shape & the carpet is new.
The wheels are 13" cromadoras w/ good tires + a matching spare. The dash &
consoles (btw, the upper console is included...it's just not in the photo) were
all recovered at some point in the past & are actually free of rips/cracks.
The glass is all good. So, I could ramble further about the car, but instead
let me give a URL for photos. Without the 1608 & transmission, I'm thinking
about 800$. Other configurations? Let me know what you have in mind... Check
out the pictures:
http://www.eccentricauto.com/sub/1970-124coupe/ "
alvon
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bandit
NP Ace
I thought i made it clear the Jackets were not the same to begin with
the photos proved that, you know what they say " a picture is worth
a thousand words "
Wasn't pointing a finger at you ace you took it the wrong way it was
just to try get back to the issue .
Daniel
I thought i made it clear the Jackets were not the same to begin with
the photos proved that, you know what they say " a picture is worth
a thousand words "
Wasn't pointing a finger at you ace you took it the wrong way it was
just to try get back to the issue .
Daniel
Last edited by bandit on Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bandit
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ventura ace
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nickc
124 coupe on ebay
Hey Bandit, did you ever pick up that 124 coupe you were looking for? If not, there is a very nice one on ebay right now.
Item number: 110086781809
It is beautiful, but do you think it's worth more 5Gs +?
Nick
Item number: 110086781809
It is beautiful, but do you think it's worth more 5Gs +?
Nick
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ICF
Daniel- I have a coupe
Hi, Daniel- I have a '72 coupe that I tore down for a restoration and then along came projectllancia.com
Daniel- If you are interested, drop me an e-mail and I'll send you some pic.s
The car is near Dallas
-Jerry
jerryleephillips@yahoo.com
Daniel- If you are interested, drop me an e-mail and I'll send you some pic.s
The car is near Dallas
-Jerry
jerryleephillips@yahoo.com