How do I decide?

[Tgood]

I am looking at three possible spiders right now.
The first one.

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/1683985593.html

I have seen this one. The date on the pictures is accurate, is has been sitting since. Rust isn't bad, just a few bubbles on the rear wheel wells. Doesn't run, or at least didn't start. Top is shot, and the interior is very rough. Both seats have gangsta lean, and the front of the drivers is loose. Paint is shot, and it needs a new hood. But this is the closest of the three.

I may see the next two this weekend. What else should I look for/ask about? Pretty sure maintenance is nonexistent on these cars.

The second one.

http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/1675182429.html
The ad says all I know about it. Not too sure if I like the green that much, but it could grow on me. I expect the car will be fun regardless of the color. The car is about an hour and half away, one way.

The third one.

http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/1672663434.html
Again, hour and half drive. Spoke with the owners; they don't seem to know much of anything about the car. Drive line is out, not sure why. The said the clutch petal just goes to the floor, and that is their diagnosis of a bad clutch. Sounds more like a master/slave cylinder issue. Unless this year has a cable? Not sure.

Now the last dilemma. There is a complete 84 engine near me (600), and a complete 75 engine about two hours away for 500, but I think it comes with a transmission. Any value in mixing and matching of the engines? The 2.0 engine with the 1.8 intake, carb and such in the 73 maybe?

The work required of any of this doesn't really scare me. I don't know how to weld, and my garage is about the size of a porta-potty, but both of those can be overcome, I am sure. Fortunately, rust usually isn't too much of an issue here in the nw.

How is the availability of the various years’ flywheels? I did some looking for a new 73 flywheel, and I didn't find anything. Something to be concerned about, or does another year work fine?

It looks like the timing belt is the first thing to do. I understand some years are not interference engines? Is that correct? I have unreasoning fear of timing belts; my 944 s2 has the rubber belt with an interference engine. But I have 16 valves that crash, and they cost 100 buck apiece to replace! Yep, pretty sensitive to the belt!

Thanks in advance for the opinions!

Tom

[narfire]

Hmmm.
Was the 80 a FI or carb'd car? I think Bruce in Courtenay was looking at that car briefly. My druthers is a FI car at the moment. The 83 engine would bolt right in if the 80 was fi . I like the look of the 73 though.
Not much help here... Go for the car that runs and is the least rusty. Check the shock towers and pull the carpet to check the floors. Interiors are relativly easy to come by,I just bought one from south of you on Monday. There is a fellow in rossberg? on CL selling some fiat parts.
I'd go for the 80 if fi and if $$$ permit buy the engine from the 83 and over time take it apart and rebuild with a few new bits that would improve performance but still be a comfortable driver and swap it in next winter. You will have to spend some loot regardless after purchase to change out the timing belt, flex disk and fuel filter and a few other bits.Brakes?

Good luck and keep us posted
Chris

[courtenay]

I was looking at the '80. It was an Fi, but the owner converted it to carb because it was running rough. He does have all the Fi gear in a box and it comes with the car. The owner sent me a ton of pictures - and frankly, despite the colour, the car looks pretty solid. Doesn't appear (from the pictures I got at least) to have any rust in any important places. The brakes need work - wouldn't want to drive very far. Broken bleeder valve on one of the wheels. I was actually going to buy the thing from the pictures until I found out how much it was going to cost me to get it back to Vancouver Island - with trailer rental, ferry fares etc, it was almost as much as the car. BTW, the owner was not interested in negotiating. He does not appear to be in any hurry to sell the car.

[Exit98]

Tom,

Just a disclaimer first: we all have strong opinions here about the best years and styles and so forth. So no offense to anyone else; if I were looking for a sub-$2K spider project I would be all over the 1973.

If its got little or no rust it is a diamond in the rough. Even more so if its got a 1608 cc motor.

None of us buy these silly little cars for an investment, but in the years to come the early small bumper cars are going to be harder and harder to find. I spent 6 months looking for a good one and finally just gave up and bought a 76.

There's reasons why so many 74+ Spiders have no bumpers any more. And try to find a set of usable front and rear small ones. THen you have to retrofit them and deal with the holes in the front valance and fit blinkers.

All done on the 73.

Good luck whatever you decide. Thanks for asking.

[Tgood]

Thanks for all the responses! From what has been said, I don't have a good feeling about the 80. If the owner tried to fix an efi issue by putting on carbs, who knows what else has been short-cutted. I have felt the pain of fixing po's "fixes' before.

There is this car, http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/1687826412.html it is pretty local, but I don't have a warm and fuzzy about it either. Besides, I can hear the wife if I brought that home. "Why do you need two porsches??" Been down that path, and now I try to avoid it. I really learned not to ask why she needed so many shoes after a comment like that.

I am going to go take a look at the 73. I will take pictures if anyone is interested.

If I did decide to swap the engine with a later year, the biggest difference is the crossmember, correct?

Thanks again!

Tom

[wachuko]

Tom,

Just a disclaimer first: we all have strong opinions here about the best years and styles and so forth. So no offense to anyone else; if I were looking for a sub-$2K spider project I would be all over the 1973.

If its got little or no rust it is a diamond in the rough. Even more so if its got a 1608 cc motor.

None of us buy these silly little cars for an investment, but in the years to come the early small bumper cars are going to be harder and harder to find. I spent 6 months looking for a good one and finally just gave up and bought a 76.

There's reasons why so many 74+ Spiders have no bumpers any more. And try to find a set of usable front and rear small ones. THen you have to retrofit them and deal with the holes in the front valance and fit blinkers.

All done on the 73.

Good luck whatever you decide. Thanks for asking.

+1 My vote goes for the '73. Just has all the right details for a classic... engine wise you can always stuff something more powerful under the hood. Wish I had found something local like that. Sweet.

Keep us posted.

[baltobernie]

You're already on the correct side of the country to find a quality Spider, so don't limit your search to a 2-hour drive. You could probably dolly a Spider with virtually anything, so I'd suggest checking with the Bay area and So Cal clubs.

Re: 1973 vs. others, aren't your emission laws essentially the same as California? That would certainly affect my choice.

[svb]

No smog in Oregon, but the 73 is still the correct choice.

[Tgood]

Actually, Oregon doesn't have smog checks, except for the Portland area. Where I live, of course. I bought a 1974 truck just so I didn't have to take it through emissions. 74 is the last exempt year. Which really makes me have to agree the 73 is a good choice.

Alright, I set up a lookie-see time. I have to wait until sunday, though. Owners aren't available on saturday.

Any deal breakers? I know I don't want to attempt shock tower replacement. How hard/expensive is a rebuild for one of these engines?

And what years have the chrome strip around the grill? The 77 I looked at didn't have it, and it looks like the 73 doesn't either.

Thanks,

Tom

[mdrburchette]

I believe they all should have the chrome surround in the grille opening. Most of us that have parted out cars would have those pieces saved in a Fiat Box. Oh, and just for the record, even though I don't have a preference just so it's an early model car, I'd go for the 73.

[mosiacspider]

I have a similar situation. 1979 vs 1971. Is a 71 also the way to go?

[baltobernie]

How hard/expensive is a rebuild for one of these engines?

Tom. you haven't said what you want to do with your car. Do you want a "project" or a "driver"? How much work are you willing/able to do? Not just skills and money, but time and temperament.

Please search the forum to get estimates on restoring one of these cars, but the first rule of classic car ownership (and one we've all broken ) is to set a budget. For the most value for the money, spend your entire budget on the best car you can find for that money, because every restoration project loses money. "Let the other guy spend it." A well-bought $5,000 car is going to be a much better car than a $1500 car with $3500 worth of restoration. It may not be the exact color you dream of, or the wheels you want, etc. but getting exactly what you want involves spending a lot more time and money. Custom home vs. tract house; $/sq.ft. the tract house always comes out ahead.

[Tgood]

That is a very good point. I would imagine the same say goes for fiats that goes for porsches. There is nothing more expensive than a cheap porsche/fiat. I am trying to keep my purchase budget low. I know I should buy a nicer car for more, I know of a very nice 78 for 4k. I know I will spend much more on a project, even if I tell myself I won't. We all know how that goes. Heck, if the 73 doesn't work out, I may just pick the 78 up.
But with a car you need to fix everything, you get piece of mind, you know you have touched everything. Sometimes that isn't a good thing, but at least you know how you rigged what ever fix it was. We all have done it. Sometimes you sell the vehicle before the correct fix is done, and you are the stupid po! And then you get the knowledge, and that is probably the best part. It is the best feeling to complete a repair and survive the test drive.

So, yes, there is a budget. But it really doesn't matter, it's not about a to b, but what is between a and b. Now if any of you tell my wife I said anything about going over budget, I will deny everything! Besides, I will have a good reason to buy more tools!

As far as skill level, about the only thing I have not yet done on a car is sucessful metal work. I have done metal work, just not successfully. Just painted my p-car last summer. Didn't turn out too bad.

Hmm. Taking the day off work tomorrow to look at the car so I don't have to wait for sunday is getting very tempting...

Tom

[sonosml]

Your tomorrow is now Yesterday! So, what did you decide? Did you get the 73?

IA-Mike

[baltobernie]

At least you're a realist! Hey we can certainly use more '73 owners

Have you seen these articles:
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/200 ... uide1.html
http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/buyspid.html

Yes, you can mix bits from most of the engines. The hot setup seems to be a 2L block and head with high comp pistons, mild aftermarket cam, one large carb on an 1800 manifold or twin 40's on an aftermarket intake, free-flow exhaust. If any valves need replacing, get a new oversize set. Balance everything, because the TC doesn't have a harmonic balancer in front. 140HP and street drivability. About $4-5k. Another k for trans. rebuild and clutch. Another one if you need/want to change the rear axle (early cars have a stump-pulling 4.33 ratio, rendering 1st gear useless). Another one for springs, shocks, larger front and aftermarket rear sway bars. Another one for wheels and tires (are you keeping count?). Another one for brakes. Another one for electrics; I can help you with a Painless wiring harness to eliminate those quirky gremlins once and for all.

Cosmetics: sky's the limit, but if you do all the prep work, $2k for paint, one for rechrome and another one for interior bits and top.

I've left out a lot: windshield, fuel tank, wiper motor or rack, stereo ...

You'll end up with a very nice $15,000 car. There are a couple of these on this forum. Is that what you want? Still not a daily driver, still unable to keep up with a new Miata. What are the alternatives? Can't touch an Alfa Spider for that, fugettabout a Healy or Jag. Maybe a classic 911 ragtop? Oh wait, we forgot a 2007 Solstice But park your Spider virtually anywhere, and somebody will come up and say, "Beautiful car. I used to have one, and still miss it. If you don't mind me asking, what would it take to get one in this condition?" When you tell him, he'll say, "Heck I couldn't buy anything else this pretty, this classic for anywhere near that price." And he's right.