Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

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seventil

Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

Hi everyone!

In the spirit of wachucko's recent threads (great reads!), going to look at some Spider's and posting pictures of cars he looked at... I'd like to do the same!

First, I must admit that I'm somewhat mechanically impaired when it comes to cars - I'm a techie at heart, did plenty of mechanical stuff while I was in the military, but fixing a 5 ton truck is a bit different than looking under the hood of a Fiat. Bear with me.

Second and most important, I live in France. Italian border is about 30 minutes away from me, which may or may not be helpful. The cars might be Italian by design, but most (to my understanding) are US-speced.

The car I'm looking at is a 1981 Fiat 124. Pictures below. A short history of the car:

- Originally bought in the US
- Sold at an auction in NY in 2002/2003
- Imported to the UK after that
- Sold to current owner in 2007 for 3000 GBP (about 4k USD)
- Only 2k miles on it since 2007.

Current owner bought it under the impression it was sound mechanically, which it was not. List of things that he's changed/fixed since buying it:

New gearbox gears
new drive shaft coupling
new gear box mount
new engine mounts
new european shocks
new timing belt
refurbished cylinder head
new brake shoes and hoses
new engine hoses
new gearbox cover and gasket
various new gaskets
new rubber bumperettes front
new clutch

Pics:

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Areas of concern for me are:

- Mechanically, it seems ok. Sitting for a month, no oil leaks. After test drive, drain plug came loose and was dripping (see above pic).
- Gearbox / gears were just replaced. During test drive, pulling back into driveway, got stuck in neutral.
- The paint isn't bad (considering), but it's bubbling and some wear / tear / rust around the lights and wheel wells (usually put trim over that area anyway)
- Original color was a dark blue. It's been painted black. Maybe covering some body damage?
- Interior floor. It looks worse than it is (it's not rusted through, but I didnt pull up seats). The horrible rust color is flaky and soft (it chips right off).
- Wiring. Whoever had this before installed a stereo and ripped everything apart. Will need to be cleaned up a lot.

What does everyone think?

Current selling price is 1600 euro (about 2000 USD). He doesn't mind having the wiring fixed before. I'm a bit concerned of the price as well... paying double that before doing all the work? Maybe some major problems that won't be noticeable until I get into the engine.

Thanks in advance everyone!
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wachuko
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Your car is a: 1981 Fiat 2000 Spider
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Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by wachuko »

Welcome to the forum!

As you know, I am new to Fiat Spiders... so best for some of the senior guys here to chime in. But here are my two francs.

It is difficult to say anything on the price since I don't know what the market/availability is in the area you live. Local market/availability will dictate that. Is this the only one available for sale? Have you looked at other cars? How often do they come up for sale?

My comments from the photos:

Overall, body looks good. Those bubble of rust should be fixed promptly and the surface rust treated.

There is a lot of oil in the undercarriage. Meaning leaks. So I would pencil in the cost of replacing the most common seals (front crankshaft seal, aux shaft seal, oil pan gasket, rear main seal, etc.)

Based on my recent finding with the car I got... check the side of the engine for any cracks due to a broken auxiliary shaft .. check my thread for location.

Tranny getting stuck in neutral? Must check why... last thing you want is to have to shell out for another tranny.

Let us know what you end up doing. Best of luck. The search for one is half the fun of ownership :)
Drive Safe!
Wachuko

1981 Fiat Spider Progress thread
1967 912 Progress Thread
1981 911 SC Coupe RS Transformation
1983 911 SC Coupe RSR Transformation
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet Progress Thread
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2015 FIAT Abarth
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stefhahn
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:57 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider 2000
Location: Stuttgart / Germany

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by stefhahn »

Hallo and welcome!

my suggestion - givenj you location - would be to check with the local club folks, in France there is a very small but very nice group of people together in the ABCCF (see: http://www.abccfiat.net/) - their Conseiller 124 is Daniel "Docteur" Dufour - he is a nice chap and knows everything about the french market and the 124s found there. There is also a contact person for sud-est - who could be checking through the car with you.
On the other hand it might be a good idea to check the italian market, too. There the best information, help and contact you can get is through the Registro Nazional 124 Sport Spider - see http://www.fiat124spider.it - if you send an email or Fax to Alberto Brancolini (their president) he will for sure handle your request.

To the car - looking at the photos I must admit that I have seen many better Spiders but also worse. In Germany (where I live) the 1600€ asking price would be cheap even for the condition shown on the pictures - but with that price tag I'd expect some more "surprises" after having got the car, if you are ready for a rolling restoration it could be a steal.

cordialement,
Stefan
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

stefhahn wrote:Hallo and welcome!

my suggestion - givenj you location - would be to check with the local club folks, in France there is a very small but very nice group of people together in the ABCCF (see: http://www.abccfiat.net/) - their Conseiller 124 is Daniel "Docteur" Dufour - he is a nice chap and knows everything about the french market and the 124s found there. There is also a contact person for sud-est - who could be checking through the car with you.
On the other hand it might be a good idea to check the italian market, too. There the best information, help and contact you can get is through the Registro Nazional 124 Sport Spider - see http://www.fiat124spider.it - if you send an email or Fax to Alberto Brancolini (their president) he will for sure handle your request.

cordialement,
Stefan
Great, I'll check those out. I've asked my family in Italy what the market was like, they say it's usually cheaper to buy in France, but I have no first hand experience. I'll contact the Docteur and see what we can do! :)
wachuko wrote:Welcome to the forum!

As you know, I am new to Fiat Spiders... so best for some of the senior guys here to chime in. But here are my two francs.

It is difficult to say anything on the price since I don't know what the market/availability is in the area you live. Local market/availability will dictate that. Is this the only one available for sale? Have you looked at other cars? How often do they come up for sale?
I've been looking for something (non-serious) for about 2 years now, could never find anything half decent for under 3-4k euro. That's just in SE though, usually everything here is expensive. Overall, not that many for sale.
My comments from the photos:

Overall, body looks good. Those bubble of rust should be fixed promptly and the surface rust treated.

There is a lot of oil in the undercarriage. Meaning leaks. So I would pencil in the cost of replacing the most common seals (front crankshaft seal, aux shaft seal, oil pan gasket, rear main seal, etc.)
As I mentioned, the drain plug actually came loose or started leaking just as we took it for a drive. I checked under before for oil spots / oil on the undercarriage, and thought it looked pretty good. Most of the undercarriage pics I took were when we had it up on the ramp, though, to check what the problem was.

Thanks for the advice guys... not sure if I should, which means I probably shouldn't. ;)
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

Oh, and just to give you an idea on the 124 / Spider market in France... here is what has been available in the past week on leboncoin.fr (kinda like craigslist but French!) :)

http://www.leboncoin.fr/vi/101882095.htm?ca=21_s

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1980 124, American version, good state of repair... 5k euro (6500 USD)

http://www.leboncoin.fr/vi/100373110.htm?ca=21_s

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1971 Spider, 8500 euro (bout 10k USD).

http://www.leboncoin.fr/vi/101544827.htm?ca=21_s

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Actually 2 cars, both 1980, one a parts car... but seriously, 5k for that (6500 USD!).

So yeah, bit more expensive here (looking at what everyone is paying for a 5-6k USD Spider in the states, wow)

I'll take a look into the Italian market soon.
katsi

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by katsi »

I would say 2K in U.S. $ is a bit high but if you weigh that against the availability of spiders in France - well, we all know about supply and demand. I would jump on it. It's only about 500.00 U.S. bones over priced. And, you could probably get him down a bit too. It does not look beyond fixable either. Those floor pans are at the turning point though - check against the frame and see how much rust.
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

katsi wrote:I would say 2K in U.S. $ is a bit high but if you weigh that against the availability of spiders in France - well, we all know about supply and demand. I would jump on it. It's only about 500.00 U.S. bones over priced. And, you could probably get him down a bit too. It does not look beyond fixable either. Those floor pans are at the turning point though - check against the frame and see how much rust.
Yeah, I've been sweating about that all day actually. I need to take a wire brush and see if it's just surface rust or all the way through.

I checked underneath where it should have been and it wasn't rusted,but I think it was painted over / treated on the bottom.

Not really keen on re-welding entire floor panels! :)

Still can't decide though... spring is almost here and I want to be outside cleaning and working on one of these babies soon!
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wachuko
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Your car is a: 1981 Fiat 2000 Spider
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Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by wachuko »

I agree. If that is the reality on that market then you have a deal in your hands.
Drive Safe!
Wachuko

1981 Fiat Spider Progress thread
1967 912 Progress Thread
1981 911 SC Coupe RS Transformation
1983 911 SC Coupe RSR Transformation
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet Progress Thread
2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d
2015 FIAT Abarth
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

wachuko wrote:I agree. If that is the reality on that market then you have a deal in your hands.
Well, I think those are on websites / on the market because they're overpriced. A lot of people still sell by newspaper. I think I could probably re-plate it to French plates + get it up to speed technically for 300-500 euro and sell it for 3000 euro, maybe. (not that I'm doing this to make money, of course) I'd rather keep it and drive it on sunny days. In fact, I'd rather keep it forever and give it to my kids when they're grown up or something.

I think I'll call the guy and get it up on a ramp this weekend, will post some more pics if that happens. Need to take it into a shop for the wiring anyway.
katsi

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by katsi »

seventil wrote:Yeah, I've been sweating about that all day actually. I need to take a wire brush and see if it's just surface rust or all the way through.
The rust actually looks normal for these cars. Right now it looks like it's at that point where you need to get in there and chip out all the stuff on top of the floor boards and go to town with a wire wheel. Really clean them up. I just finished this on mine.
seventil wrote:I checked underneath where it should have been and it wasn't rusted,but I think it was painted over / treated on the bottom.
They all are. Again it's normal. I can see that on the inner corner of the driver's side floor pan (By the gas peddle) it's about to rust through. Also, I can almost guarantee rust arround the drain plugs. What you need to do it lift up the carpet and check the mounts that the seats are on. It will most likely have a few holes in the pan but again, they all do. They have a pretty heavy cross member running under the seats.
seventil wrote:Not really keen on re-welding entire floor panels!
I know a lot here would knock me for saying this but this is what I did. On the sides of the floor boards where they meet the frame, I just ground off what rust was there (probably 80% still intact) and hit it with that rust treatment and then pop rivited a large 90 degree angle peice of metal I got from the locar hardware store. Then, I sealed it up from underneith with silicone and then rino lined the bottom again. I did this a a few different points to my floor boards. Including that exact place by the gas peddle I see on this one. It may not last forever but I hope I stopped the rust. What are you gonna do? :roll: Jump on in the water's fine - It's not like your spending Ferrari money here. By the way, it will have plenty of wiring problems. Don't worry, you will become a pretty good Fiat electricion in no time at all.
2ndwind
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:17 pm
Your car is a: 1982 Spider
Location: Cincinnati OH

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by 2ndwind »

If I read it right, owner is willing to take $2000 AFTER having electrical repaired. I'm ON with that as I suddenly go dumb and blind when it comes to electrical issues. Overall this car seems decent for the price. Have whoever rebuilt the tranny fix it properly.

Steve
Steve
1982 Red Spider 2000
1919 Old Town Sailing Canoe
azygoustoyou

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by azygoustoyou »

Sounds like I have to start sending spiders over to France to sell them. :shock:
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

2ndwind wrote:If I read it right, owner is willing to take $2000 AFTER having electrical repaired. I'm ON with that as I suddenly go dumb and blind when it comes to electrical issues. Overall this car seems decent for the price. Have whoever rebuilt the tranny fix it properly.

Steve
I suppose that's reasonable. Will take it into a local FIAT shop and get it up on the lifts and have them check that out also.

I think I'll need another test drive to see if it's a chronic problem.

Funny, the more time I spend on this forum, the more I want to buy the car, no matter the condition. These problems are part of the fun, right? :)

Thanks again everyone. Still not decided, sleeping on it didn't help. Will wait for a nice day and take it out again (oh no...!)
seventil

Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by seventil »

Hi everyone,

Update for today... car only has 12k miles on the register, and the gauges look like they're relatively new. Basically no idea how many miles the car has on it! Current owner didn't change them (was 10k when he bought it I guess)

Should I be happy or back away slowly? :)
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wachuko
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Your car is a: 1981 Fiat 2000 Spider
Location: Orlando, FL USA
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Re: Buying 1981 Fiat 124 (pictures)

Post by wachuko »

Just get it, clean it well, fix the small stuff to get it running reliably and have fun fixing the rest little by little... that is what I am doing! :D
Drive Safe!
Wachuko

1981 Fiat Spider Progress thread
1967 912 Progress Thread
1981 911 SC Coupe RS Transformation
1983 911 SC Coupe RSR Transformation
1991 964 C4 Cabriolet Progress Thread
2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d
2015 FIAT Abarth
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