brake trouble please advise

[84pininfarinablack]

Just installed new master cylinder from IAP. New rubber hoses. New calipers from Advanced auto. New rotors new pads.
I just bled the front left. Squirting fluid into bottle .. got most of air out.
Front right caliper squirts no fluid out the bleeder.. I took the hose off the caliper and no fluid coming thru.
I loosened the brake line from the master cylinder and it leaks properly when loosened. (master cylinder has fluid in it)

I pumped that brake pedal 100 times and not one drop came thru...
What am i doing wrong ? the brake line bled fine prior to changing all the other stuff. Im thinkin master cylinder has issue.
but why would it bleed front left and not front right?
thanks for your help

[ventura ace]

Did you bench bleed the MC to get all the air out? You may still have some air in the MC, which makes it very difficult to bleed with the brake pedal pumping technique. Residual air in the MC + a big air bubble in the line that goes over to the right side = air bubble just moving back and forth every time you pump. If you haven't bench bled the MC, do that first, and see if things improve

Alvon

[84pininfarinablack]

how do you bench bleed the mc ? Ive looked all over the forum. Is it possible for front left to get fluid but not one drop to front right ? could that be an air bubble ? hundreds of brake pedal pushes later. not one squirt.
Im worried i may have comprimised my metal brake tubing on front right as i did much twisting to get the old hose off. There are no creases or major twists in the line could it possibly closed itself off somehow with my messing with it ? No creases so im thinking no. 4 weekends on brakes and damm i thought i was there .
I put in old Master cylinder again and hooked it all back up again.. and still nothing to front right.

[NebraskaSpider]

No idea if this will help, but I know the bolt has a hole in the side of it and so does metal end of the hose...do you have to line up the holes to allow fluid to flow through it? Or is there enough room for fluid to flow around it no matter where the hole lines up at after you tighten it all down? The bolt might also have something stuck in in.

[84pininfarinablack]

that was my first guess.. i took the bolt off. still no fluid dripping or squirting. no signs of fluid to the brake hose at least.
Ive backed it up on ramps.. front and back. taken off nipples of mc and poured brake fluid all in there saw a few bubbles come out. not sure about this bench bleed or how or what that is but i pray i dont have to remove the mc for the 4th time.. lol

[rlux4]

The master cylinder will have to come off to bench bleed it. Some people have been lucky I guess, and not have to bench bleed it when they do a change out, but there have been cases recently where no pressure could be built up unless the procedure had been done. You need to clamp the m/c in a vise and bleed it by pushing in on the actuator rod. To do it you'll need a supply of brake fluid above the m/c and another container to bleed into. There is a kit that has the nipples to hook hoses to that help a lot. Not sure who may carry it, IAP maybe? Also it may be necessary to tilt the m/c to get it into a position that any air pockets can escape.
I'm not sure I've done a good enough job explaining what's needed, this is one of those things where words aren't the best. A video of it would be perfect.
Ron

[84pininfarinablack]

i rented advanced auto parts bleeder... manual squeeze pump thing.. what a piece of junk.. just leaks air or when it does form vaccuum it gets no fluid. even on the side that would bleed the bleeder wouldnt pull any fluid.. pump the brakes and out it comes.. lol

I dont understand how bench bleeding gets the air out by doing the same exact thing i do when i push my brake pedal.
putting it on a vice and pushing the plunger.. isnt that the same thing im doing with it installed. ? minus the jiggling? which im doing also with all my leaning the car stunts.

As a side note have you all had any experience with your local shops.? do european auto places work on fiats these days. ?
can i tow this thing off somewhere and let them fight with it? I would pay a few hundred to get my brakes back at this point.
Im expecting a bunch of no's when i call around to shops... do you all hear no from shops to this old car ? Or is the cardinal sin of the Fiat forum. Im reading all these posts from poor souls fighting with brakes for months and no luck.. I just want my baby running again.

[84pininfarinablack]

also if i continue to take my flare bolts out over and over again im not going to get them in or out in short time. rounding those edges ever so slowly.
the more i do this the more ill have to replace these things.

[snownsand]

When I did my brakes a few years back there was one side, I can't remember which now, on the front that I couldn't get fluid through. Same as yours I pumped the pedal hundreds of times with it just going to the floor and no resistence and gave up when it got dark. The next day I tried again and noticed the last maybe 1/4" of pedal travel felt like I was getting a little something to go. I kept pushing, letting the pedal up only about 2" on each stroke and pushing pretty hard through the bottom. Eventually I was feeling resistence through an 1" of travel then 2" then it was obviously moving fluid through the line and bled normally. My thinking after was that there was a large air bubble near the master cylinder that took some persistence to move. Maybe something to try.

[84pininfarinablack]

yes i spent an hour watching the clear hose on the front left bleed.. the air bubble in the hose extension goes back and forth and back and forth with little progress.. finally i learned a slow downstroke and fast release actually move the bubble..
no luck on front right yet.. ill try in morning or all night if im still mad about it which i am..

[84pininfarinablack]

i have mastered driving with no brakes.. just put it in first and turn the key to off position.. lol
ive tried 3 more elevated tire positions pumped 500 more times.. I think im wearing out the poor brake pedal.

Im not sure about the next day theory.. Air bubbles shouldnt go downward overnight.. but maybe the slow drip of the reservoir overnight slowly filling that last bit of the master cylinder and realeasing a bubble overnight i guess is feasible. The bubble would have to pop up to the reservoir out of those two hoses I presume.. fingers are crossed. I wonder how they did it at the fiat factory when new.. Ill bet they had emergency bleeding meetings twice a week.

[wachuko]

James, you should have called me. I have a Motive Bleeder that would do the trick. Just stop by to pick it up.



It pushes the brake fluid through the system. One man job with no sore hands afterward...

[kilrwail]

James - the line to the RF is separate from the LF. The rears share a line to the compensator. Some people on here have said they use gravity to bleed with less effort. What have you got to loose. Open the RF bleeder, close all the others, fill up the reservoir, leave the cap off but cover with a shop towel and walk away - for at least an hour. Then borrow Jaime's power bleeder if needed

[84pininfarinablack]

thanks Jaime, do you think that thing will do the trick ? Ive been fighting with brakes hoping to get this thing on the road to your place for the timing belt. rain all week today was my crunch time and no luck thus far. My new master cylinder already got rusty in 3 days in the car so i just painted it with red caliper paint.. hope it sticks. Im going to bench bleed it I guess unless that pump of yours allows me to skip that step.. does it suck the air out of the MC ? I really cant see how bench bleeding is going to work. I guess it gets most of the air out but how do you feed the MC brake fluid ? thru nipples ? with a little funnel ? and how do you pull fluid / air out ?

as for gravity i think my front right tire is lower than the MC so its not going down.. I guess ill hope for up. @

[84pininfarinablack]

that motive bleeder is pretty awesome i just watched the video.. does any auto parts stores sell those ? I saw them at IAP. I definitly need to add that to the tool collection.. I may have to borrow yours wachuka. thank you. I have a feeling ill be bleeding it more than once though.. as im sure ill find more leaks and problems when i get to the rear of the car.