Help-Buying my first Fiat Spider and have ???

[ga.spyder]

Great advise.If you get the mindset of making an offer too quick...? You could use the fact that it doesnt look like the hood has been opened in 70K as a bargaining point.From the pix,isnt the underhood a different color(respray)?Check why there are no pix w/top up,no boot cover,no dist. heat shield.Car does look nice in the pix,but that is high end asking price.If everything is like it should be,your offer(4000) would be more like it.Make sure you check the front end bushings,ball joint,etc.For his asking price,that should all be new. Good Luck,I hope its'the one' !!!
Craig

[wachuko]

I went to Jacksonville today and from there to Palm Bay.

I will start with Don's car (Jacksonville). First of all, Don is such a great guy. A real car nut. Here is a guy, who is about to turn 80, with a barn full of parts for these cars; new short blocks for the 1300, parts and parts. He is fixing a Lancia Scorpion in his garage. He is got a couple of more projects he wants to do... Man! I only wish I am that active at that age. Overall a very pleasant gentleman to talk to.

Bare with me as I need to share how looking over the car went. This guy knows these cars well. I was trying to take in and learn as much as I could.

So I start going over the car, opening the doors and looking at the interior, he tells me that this was his first test using carbon fiber, I look inside and see that the dash is all covered in carbon fiber. He installed an additional oil pressure gauge, clock looks brand new, odometer replaced but original is laying in the back seat. I open the hood and he tells me about the high compression pistons, how the block was shaved to have them sit flush, etc. and that the car needs to run on premium fuel due to those changes, pretty cool stuff. Engine looks dry, nothing fancy, no shiny or polished stuff, just a normal looking engine bay that is nice and dry from any oil spills, leaks, etc. We open the trunk and as I am doing this he is telling me about not closing the trunk by pressing on the badge as it would dent it and how when he worked on them full time, they had a line of cars waiting to have that dent removed from owners that used it as a place to push down on it. He replaced the cardboard with some 1/4” wood panels. He replaced the fuel tank. Everything inside the trunk looks original... battery is not the one that goes with the car (did not asked, but guessing he took it out of another car for the test drive).

I look under the car and he tells me about the new exhaust, dual pipes from the front to the end muffler, how he sealed the differential, rebuilt the transmission, he lowered the car by cutting the original springs.

This guy is proud of the mechanical work he has done in the car and with reason... so we take it for a test drive. Car drives beautiful, I mean, solid movements, easy clutch, perfect gear changes, I am asking him about best rpm for peak power and he is just telling me that he just drives the car relaxed... but to test it. So I take it up a little... solid... revs well, good power, suspension is great, I mean very controlled body movements, going over some unpaved road the suspension takes it well, over smooth pavement is just sweet...

Anyway, so I politely start to point out the areas of concerns. Stuff I see that will require a significant amount of $. I tell him straight out that the car is mechanically as best it can be. That there is really nothing I see needed to be fixed or not working properly. That were I see money needed to be spent is on getting it to look as pretty as red107 car. He tends to disagree a little saying that the paint only needs to be buffed, interior is complete and I could use it as a daily driver. . I tell him about a few other cars I have seen in the 1-4K range.. and he just tells me that he has a few in like that in the back rusting away... by now I am reaching into the pocket in my jacket with the envelop with the US$4K I have for this car... and I am thinking, “there is no negotiating with Don... I am screwed”

So I start with the list: the windshield is scratch on passenger side, a scratch from a wiper arm missing a blade... no big deal, he says. “I got a couple of those in the back, we can change it”... we just need to remove it completely with frame as to not disturb the seal (and goes explaining how the interior seal of the windshield is attached).

I tell him about the paint (he probably did the paint himself based on our conversation).. how I see a few bubbles on the rear wheel arches.. he tells me about the replacement panels and that he has a notch tool to bend the arch to sit the new replacements flush... The hood that is unpainted, well guess what, he has some spare paint...

At the end, I just don't even dare to make an offer... I know he is set on his 6,000.00 So I take all the photos you see here, I thanked him for his time, and we head out to Palm Bay.

We get to Palm Bay and take a look at the car (owner by now has lowered the car to US$1,800.00) but the car is a ball of rust... I mean, everything I have learned here to avoid, that car had. broken/cracked door hinges, rust, rust, rust... engine has oil all over, I look into the spark plugs area and there is a pool of oil... I get under the car and there is rust, bent this, bent that... I don't waste the owner's time with a test drive and just head back home feeling a bit down but with a wealth of knowledge.

The search continues... stay tune.

Photos from Don's car:

[wachuko]

Opps... I meant to put more:

So guys, for someone with the budget to spend 6K on buying this car and then doing a full repaint and interior, this car would be great. I just don't have the $ to do so.

[rlux4]

What year is Don's car? Too bad he has it overpriced, it looks pretty good, but you're right, you'd have to put more into it to get it worth $6000.
Ron

[wachuko]

What year is Don's car? Too bad he has it overpriced, it looks pretty good, but you're right, you'd have to put more into it to get it worth $6000.
Ron

It is an 1982...

The last batch of photos:

[So Cal Mark]

I don't like that front bumper treatment, or the crooked decals. IMHO, that exhaust system won't work very well for torque

[ga.spyder]

Good pass,Jaime.I know its frustrating but that isnt a 6K car.Not even close to the one I told you about.Even a 4K car shouldnt need a repaint and new interior.Keep looking...it'll find you.
Craig

[wachuko]

I don't like that front bumper treatment, or the crooked decals. IMHO, that exhaust system won't work very well for torque

I was not really worried about that. What ever I get will have one of your systems installed.

[wachuko]

Good pass,Jaime.I know its frustrating but that isnt a 6K car.Not even close to the one I told you about.Even a 4K car shouldnt need a repaint and new interior.Keep looking...it'll find you.
Craig

That one was not easy... really drove well, even with all the cosmetic work that it needed. But it would have meant not being able to do the mods I wanted.

Anyway, like you guys said, no rush... the right one will show up. The search is half of the fun.

[red107]

Jaime, Sorry to hear it didn't work out. I agree 6k is is a way too hi. Did you ask him what he would take?
I was shocked when he told me was 79 and turning 80 in a few weeks. Your right I only hope i am as active as he is at that age.

I don't like that front bumper treatment, or the crooked decals. IMHO, that exhaust system won't work very well for torque

Mark, Give him a call and ask about that. I'm curios as well on that. in his defense he is a wealth of knowledge. He is one of the few fiat trained mechanics and instructors around. He started working for fiat in the 60's up until they left the U.S. Market. After they left He owned fiat shops in Sacramento and Memphis until he retired 15 years ago. Most people I met just picked it up as a hobby like the rest of us.

[wachuko]

Jaime, Sorry to hear it didn't work out. I agree 6k is is a way too hi. Did you ask him what he would take?
I was shocked when he told me was 79 and turning 80 in a few weeks. Your right I only hope i am as active as he is at that age.

I did not ask... did not think he would negotiate. When I told him about cars ranging from 2.5-4K he told me he had a few of those out in the back rusting...

No worries... going to see another one tomorrow afternoon... and guess what!? Right next door to where I live!! A subdivision down from where I am. Would be funny that I have driven all around Florida and buy one that was just next door to me... let me not jinx it... will report back tomorrow. It is a '79 so it gives the the option of slapping dual carbs for a sweeter sounding engine...

[wachuko]

Found another one. In Boca Raton, 1982, original owner (Italian guy...), 52K miles, very original car... He has a deposit from a buyer in Georgia (anyone here?). He is holding the car for two weeks, if that does not work he will give me a call...

[wachuko]

Jaime, Sorry to hear it didn't work out. I agree 6k is is a way too hi. Did you ask him what he would take?..

I am still thinking about how nice Don's car drove. Since you spend a lot of time with him, you need to sweet talk him into selling me that car for the 3.5K I have...

Anyway, let me get back to work.

[ga.spyder]

Hey Jaime...daydream about how nice the one in Boca will look in your driveway!!And a 82 to boot.
Craig

[wachuko]

Hey Jaime...daydream about how nice the one in Boca will look in your driveway!!And a 82 to boot.
Craig

I was late to that car by 2 days... I asked the owner for photos just in case (the ones in the ad are really too small to see all the details). Original owner with 50K miles... '82 original car, man! . Here is an interior shot of that '82:



Anyhow... went to see the '79 that is next door. Car has a 20 feet paint job and first impression was “wow! A tricked out Fiat Spider, cool!”. Sort of like a hot rod Fiat Spider. New canvas top (very nice), new workshop manual in trunk. All running lights deleted (but not metal welded, it was patched with fiberglass and it was cracking...). Custom rear end. Lowered. Floor panel had rusted and instead of welding an original replacement there was a hole with a piece of flat steel over it riveted. Carburetor leaking. Not original anything... see photos. If the body work and interior had been done correctly it would have been a candidate...like I said, a hot rod version of a Fiat Spider, some great ideas for mods. But the poor body work/paint, the way some of the repairs were done, and an asking price of 5K, not for me. It did sound sweet as it was driving away...

Enjoy the photos. The search continues...