Help-Buying my first Fiat Spider and have ???

[wachuko]

Hello,

Looking to buy my first Fiat Spider and have a few questions on what a fair price for this car would be.

It is an 1981 with aprox 60K miles. Orginial color was brown but was painted two years ago in a shade of metallic blue. As per the owner, everything was painted except for the engine bay, Interior was done in leather at the same time, and a new exhaust was installed. I forgot to ask about the condition of the top

The photos I have were sent by the owner. I will be looking at the car this afternoon and will take better photos.

So far, from the photos and talking to the owner, I can see the following:

Missing all badges
Passenger tail light broken (and it looks like there is a dent right below the tail light...)
Missing the top boot
Owner told me that the Air Flow Meter needs to be replaced

Those part alone are roughly US$1,500.00 to bring it to look like the rest of the cars I have look at in the ads.

I will try to do a compression test, test drive, look for any body work done to cover rust, check paint condition, check top condition, etc. With the help of this forum I also found a few buyer's guide with good info.

What would be a fair offer? What impact a change in color has (specially since the engine was not removed to paint the engine bay...)? Owner was asking US$4,000.00 and over the phone mentioned that he would drop the cost of replacing the Air Flore Meter.

Here are some photos:

[MNspiderman]

I think its a 2-3k spider myself. If someone wants 4K and they are telling you that it needs an AFM. They should have one installed themselves. How can they tell how the car runs without an AFM. Could be bad injectors, pressure regulator, TPS, Air leaks,compression, O2 sensor, etc. Or you get a written guarantee that if you simply change the AFM the car will run excellent. If not, you may have been partially scammed. My Alfa has basically the same AFM that you have and mine is bad. Its not fun, its frustrating and it can drive you crazy because you just don't know if that is the true culpret simply because it sucks to spend a few hundred dollars on a part that someone told you to buy and to find out its not really that part. Tell him to put an AFM on it and you will pay full price once you know it really works.

[maytag]

Well, of course I'm not there looking at it, but based on your description that's a $2500 car, not a $4500 car.

More pics and info could change my mind I guess.
The respray is bound to be covering body repairs.
That respray is only worth what you think it is worth, as the new potential owner. How much do you hate brown? Personally: I hate brown cars. But I hate poorly done resprays even more.
What condition is the interior? And WHAT is that brown "ring" that seems to be in the windsheild on the photo taken from behind? It looks like it could be a windscreen behind the seats? Look for the quality of ANY modifications done.

My big $$ determining factors:
Condition of the mechanicals, as they sit, especially brakes and trans / diff.
Condition of the interior (for me, this can be the most expensive area to bring a car back to life)

Let us know what you find?

[wachuko]

MNspiderman, Maytag, thank you guys. Keep them coming.

2.5-3K is what I was also thinking, IF the paint job is a good one and was done to change the color and not to hide some awful body damage or to cover bondo used in rusted areas. Which brings me to my next question: How can I determine that? How do I know if Bondo was used to plug rusted holes if it is hidden under a new coat of paint????

Also, what compression numbers should I be seeing?? I know that they must be within a low percentage of each other, but what are typical numbers to see from a fuel injected engine? Update: found the answer to this one: Compression numbers

Maytag, that brown ring is from the tow truck. What the owner told me was that he sold the car to a person he knew and gave him a payment plan, guy fails to pay and owner takes the car back. Since he was out of state at the time, he had a tow truck pick up the car.

[tonyfromjersey]

I'd say 2.5-3k is fair, BUT....make sure you can get a title. If this is embroiled in some friendly payment plan, you stole my car, I'm going to court BS you certainly don't want to get caught in the middle of it.

Don't know about AFM, I have a carb-ed spider myself. Mine came with a free replacement starter, which was a POS and only worked for 3 months, it was refurb not rebuilt. If it needs parts, be careful about getting them from the PO, I'd take it off the sale price and get them yourself. There are some crappy parts running around out there, and if you're looking to unload a car I doubt you're spending time and/or money getting the best.

Good luck.

[narfire]

Also, what compression numbers should I be seeing?? I know that they must be within a low percentage of each other, but what are typical numbers to see from a fuel injected engine? Update: found the answer to this one: Compression numbers

My stock FI 80 had around 125 cold +- had about 3000kms on a rebuilt engine, and the new engine with 1800 head and Mahle 8.9:1 pistons is now around 150 cold

[wachuko]

I'd say 2.5-3k is fair, BUT....make sure you can get a title. If this is embroiled in some friendly payment plan, you stole my car, I'm going to court BS you certainly don't want to get caught in the middle of it.

Don't know about AFM, I have a carb-ed spider myself. Mine came with a free replacement starter, which was a POS and only worked for 3 months, it was refurb not rebuilt. If it needs parts, be careful about getting them from the PO, I'd take it off the sale price and get them yourself. There are some crappy parts running around out there, and if you're looking to unload a car I doubt you're spending time and/or money getting the best.

Good luck.

He told me that he has the title... but very good point, I don't want to be in the middle of any carp like that.

Seeing the car today at 4pm.

[wachuko]

Also, what compression numbers should I be seeing?? I know that they must be within a low percentage of each other, but what are typical numbers to see from a fuel injected engine? Update: found the answer to this one: Compression numbers

My stock FI 80 had around 125 cold +- had about 3000kms on a rebuilt engine, and the new engine with 1800 head and Mahle 8.9:1 pistons is now around 150 cold

Excellent. Thank you. I will pick your brain later (once I buy a car...) on that engine mod.

[baltobernie]

I will try to do a compression test, test drive, look for any body work done to cover rust, check paint condition, check top condition, etc. With the help of this forum I also found a few buyer's guide with good info.

If you've done your homework, you know that the big deal-breaker is structural rust. There are three fatal areas:

1. Crossmember. Manoa Matt has some photos of the good, the bad and the ugly.
2. Top door hinge. Mike Bouse, ditto.
3. Shock tower. Make sure you get underneath any undercoating before pronouncing the car solid. Don't let this fool you, it's the wrong view:



Here's the culprit:





For body rust, simply take a magnet with you and look for lack of attraction on the lower doors, headlamp surrounds, quarter panels, etc.

[wachuko]

I have it in my check list but did not have photos to go with it... this makes it a lot easier to know what to look for. Thank you.

I will try to do a compression test, test drive, look for any body work done to cover rust, check paint condition, check top condition, etc. With the help of this forum I also found a few buyer's guide with good info.

If you've done your homework, you know that the big deal-breaker is structural rust. There are three fatal areas:

1. Crossmember. Manoa Matt has some photos of the good, the bad and the ugly.
2. Top door hinge. Mike Bouse, ditto.
3. Shock tower. Make sure you get underneath any undercoating before pronouncing the car solid. Don't let this fool you, it's the wrong view:



Here's the culprit:





For body rust, simply take a magnet with you and look for lack of attraction on the lower doors, headlamp surrounds, quarter panels, etc.

[wachuko]

What am I missing?

The car is at a shop (owner of the shop is doing a favor of keeping the car there). I will pay the shop for getting it on their lift to look under it and pay for a compression test.

Item to check:

Tool kit
Spare tire
Rust around wheel arches
Rust in trunk and hood lids
Rust in floor, uniframe, shock towers
Door hinges cracked
Firewall near clutch area for distortion
Undercarriage anchoring points
Cross-member
Doors close right
Wheel bearings
Engine oil pan for dents
Engine for oil leaks
Engine compression
Engine for recent service (belt,plugs,etc.)
Engine for plugged lines
Engine for coolant in oil dipstick
Engine for oil in coolant tank
Engine cooling – 190C
Engine cooling fan
Transmission – gear popping out
Drive-train for whining and vibrations
Brake for pads
Brake for rotors
Brake for lines
Emergency brake
Wheels
Tires
Suspension for control arm cracks
Steering for stiffness
Lights and gauges
Dashboard for cracks
Kick panels with map pockets
Center console for cracks
Seats for tilting towards center
Wiper motor and washer pump
Top
Top Boot
Battery Box
Battery Condition
Exhaust system

[MNspiderman]

Thats quite a list. just remember its an old car and it will have issues. Have fun, good luck.

[kilrwail]

The engine cooling is about 190F, not C! Don't forget the guibo. Good luck!

[So Cal Mark]

take a magnet with you for bondo checking. See if it sticks anywhere you suspect former damage. AFMs are available rebuilt and badges aren't that expensive. Color change isn't a big deal to me, it's rare to see a Spider that hasn't had a color change. Anything would be better than that original brown. Is the interior really leather? If so, that's worth at least $1k and probably much more

[amsiegel]

Wachuko

Unless you feel 100% on the car dont get. Since your in Orlando you are in a good postion to find another Fiat. Craiglist (Orlando, Tampa the rest of Central Florida) always has a listings for Spiders usually in the two to four thousand range. THere is a good chance in the next month or so there will be one listed that is even the color you want. I would rather spend $2000 on a car and planning on fixing stuff then $4000 on a car that still needs work.

You already made the best first step you found this website. With the world on information here you should be able to correct alot of the problems yourself.