Transmission Whine?????

[johnssi]

Hi Guys,
My 1981 spider has a strange whine coming from the transmission tunnel. It seems to only occur at the top end of 2nd gear and the bottom end of 3rd, as soon as you get up into 3rd it goes away. Other than the noise it has no other symptoms, no effect on drive-ability at all. I'm planning on tackling the rear main seal this summer, dropping the trans and was thinking I should have it looked at before than, so that if it needs attention, I can carry it to the trans shop. Any ideas on what it could be??? John

[So Cal Mark]

first step would be to check the oil level in it

[MNspiderman]

Does it look like Red Whine or does it look like White Whine? Personally I wouldn't drink anything that was called Transmission Whine

[baltobernie]

That's weird, two gears sounding off at opposite ends of the RPM spectrum It's gear-related, right ... not RPM or road speed-related? You can't duplicate this in any other gear/speed/RPM combination?

What happens when you push the clutch in during the whine?

[Mathew26]

Most "whinny" transmission things are bearing related. This can be caused by lots of things. Age, oil level, and importantly wrong oil are things that cn cause bearing wear. You have to make sure when you do fix this issue to use foaming oil in your transmission.

[johnssi]

Thanks for the replies Mark, Baltobernie and Mathew26. It's definitely gear related and not road speed related. Only in 2nd and 3rd and when I push the clutch in and let the load off, like in acceleration, the noise slows and then stops. It's definitely coming from the trans. Mathew, as Mark suggested I have not had a chance to check the fluid level yet but that will be the first thing to do. I've never heard of "foaming" oil before. What's that about? Thanks for the input. John

[Mathew26]

GL1 or a type of 90 weight oil as required for Fiat transmissions. There are many oils that are the correct weight but do not foam. As the 124 transmission is not a submerged transmission the bits and pieces of the trans that are on the top don't get the right amount of lubrication. This is why you need to use a foaming oil otherwise you run the risk of burning up your trans.

[wachuko]

GL1 or a type of 90 weight oil as required for Fiat transmissions. There are many oils that are the correct weight but do not foam. As the 124 transmission is not a submerged transmission the bits and pieces of the trans that are on the top don't get the right amount of lubrication. This is why you need to use a foaming oil otherwise you run the risk of burning up your trans.

<Wachuko Taking Notes>

Any specific brand recommended in these cars? That complies with the above? Thank you.

[So Cal Mark]

if foam is present, what's to keep it from displacing oil on the gears?

Here is what Amsoil says about foaming transmission oil;

The rotating motion of the gear sets also tends to churn the lubricant, resulting in foaming. If a gear lube foams, the load carrying capacity is significantly reduced because the air suspended within the oil is compressible. For example, when the gear teeth come into contact with each other any trapped air bubbles will compress, therefore reducing the thickness of the separating oil film. In turn, this reduction could lead to direct metal-to-metal contact between gear teeth and result in accelerated wear. The gear oil must have the ability to dissipate this entrapped air, insuring a sufficient lubricating film exists to protect the gears from contact wear.


And here is an interesting link to a test of oil additives and foaming;

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

[Mathew26]

Well as per the Fiat Shop Manual "SAE 90 weight not EP". If you get an oil with EP in it such as Red Line it will not work correctly in a Fiat Transmission. We have spoken directly with an engineer from Red Line and they have asked us not to use their product in Fiat Transmissions.

[pooldoctorstl]

Hi Guys,

I don't want to stir the pot here, but I was looking last week and saw in an old thread where someone (maybe Mark? I can't remember), said they talked to someone at Pennzoil about their Syncromesh trans fluid for GM and Chrysler and it was a GL-1 oil, but it doesn't have any "GL" spec on it, and they said it was fine for Fiats. And I think Mark, you also said 10w-40 would be o.k. in our transmissions. From what I know, motor oils are not foaming or the cranckshaft would make cool whip out of the oil, and that all oils were non-foaming for that reason. Because I couldn't find GL-1 anywhere and I needed it this past weekend, I put the Pennzoil Syncromesh in my 82 Spider. Did I make a mistake? Is 10w-40 O.K.? I am thinking now I should probably order the GL-1 from Vick's. You guys have a lot more knowledge about this that I do and I don't want to fry my transmission because it is quiet and shifts great.

Thanks,
Jeff

[So Cal Mark]

it wasn't me that talked to any Penzoil engineers but I have suggested using 10/40 engine oil. It works fine in the trannys.

[engineerted]

No problems with running Syncromesh, that’s what I run in the race car with the stock fiat trans. You can only shift the trans so fast regardless of what oil you use but the Syncromesh seem to work well.

Ted

[Mathew26]

You do need to drain that out. You need to put in 90W none EP, and Fiat is very clear on this. Where this 10W-40 idea came from is HAYNES and they are aware that this is wrong and don't care to edit their catalog. We have fixed many transmissions that tried this trick. In short its just not thick enough and will eat your transmission alive. On a side note... this issue has worried me so much that I have asked the one and only Robert Vick. And the answer "Oh please don't use 10W-40."

[pope]

Motor oils are non-EP oils.
GL-1 gear oil adds de-foamers, so it does not foam. (If you want foam, buy a pint of Guiness.)
10W-40, 15W-40 and 20W-50 are alternatives to 75W-90 and 80W90 GL-1 gear oils in that they are the correct viscosity to said gear oil (which is mineral oil).

But there is no shortage of GL-1 at NAPA, so....