Does anyone now in what consisted the tuning of the BS1 1608cc car that was used for rallying (also by Fiat) in the early '70 ?
It was tuned to 155HP, I know it had a limited slip diff, IDF 44 carbs, .....and what else ????
The liverage was red with a black hub (plastic ?), and a white stripe on the side that went from the front, along the side, to the back, and then 90° up over the trunk.
The Fiat Abarth Rally (road version) had a 1756cc 128HP engine....but that is a different story
The 1608 was tuned up to 155 at the flywheel.....I'm curious to know how it was originally done.
But the engine is now the only issue here....I want to know in what the RALLY tuning kit for the 1608cc spiders consisted.
...maybe someone will now...has the appropriate literature or the experience
If it's completely race prepped, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with 155 hp. I didn't realize the Rally and Abarth Rally were two different vehicles.
1972 124 Spider (Don)
1971 124 Spider (Juan)
1986 Bertone X19 (Blue)
1978 124 Spider Lemons racer
1974 X19 SCCA racer (Paul)
2012 500 Prima Edizione #19 (Mini Rossa)
Ever changing count of parts cars....It's a disease!
I have a really nice coffee table book on the history of the WRC, which includes a page on Fiat’s short involvement. It describes two cars: a 124 Abarth and a 124 Abarth 16V. The earlier car is described as having 1756 cc and 165 bhp @ 7200, with carburetor. The 16V is described as having 1832 cc and 210 bhp @ 8000, with either carburetor or fuel injection (and presumably 4 valves per cylinder).
The photograph of the earlier car shows the white stripe as per your picture, but the stripe extends forward of the front wheel well and bends upwards to the headlamp. There is no front bumper, but there is a deep, black front air dam and two large covered Carello driving lights. There are wide black flares on both front and rear wheel wells. The upper surface of the hardtop is white, there is a “Daily Mirror” sign on the hood and the number is 19.
I tried scanning the page, but the book is too thick.
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Brownhill
1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider - original owner
1977 Porsche 911S - track car
2022 Ram 4 x 4 - hauler
PCA National Instructor and Motorsport Safety Foundation Level 2 Instructor
mdrburchette wrote: I didn't realize the Rally and Abarth Rally were two different vehicles.
the Fiat 124 Abarth Rally (CSA) is a normal road version (like the AS, BS, BS1, CS, CS1....and so on)
They made racing versions of the same car; like kilrwail mentioned in his post.
The most powerful version (210HP) had the 16v cilinderhead on the 1839cc (maybe even/also 1946cc) engine, and the mechanical Kugelfisher injection.
The liverage of the first Abarth rally version was similar to the BS1 used for rallying, but the white stripe didn't go over the trunk and started at the lights.
(I don't want to start the Abarth off-topic now...just wanted to make clear the difference)
The Fiat spiders entered rallying before the Abarth version was even born. At first with the AS version, and then with the tuned up BS1 version winning even some important races ( '71 ).
I cant find the thread now, but someone asked the same question on the GCRE forum. Guy offered to send the poster the holgamation papers for the Abarth that detailed all the parts that were used to prep the cars.
I bought a copy of the original owners manual from Guy Croft. It only lists the 1756cc - 128hp version. This was the true Abarth produced in 1973. What is interesting was that the Valve size was the same 42 mm that the 1608 had. The competition version put out 170 hp with the same 44 mm Webers. I think later the Abarth 4 valve boosted it up to 190 hp still with Carbs. Then the final version was 1824cc with Fuel Injection, Abarth Head, and 210 hp. However the factory did prepare 1608 versions in 1970,1971, and 1972. From all my references these were basically hot rodded standard cars with the standard solid axel and front A-Arms. I have not found any published spec's on them as I do not think the factory ever amitted that these were factory cars. There was only one reference to 165 hp. I assumed that this was with the standard 40 mm IDF's. This seems reasonable HP for a 1608 prepared for racing.
These are my references;
1) Owners manuel of the Fiat Abarth Rally (copy from Guy)
2) Modifying and Tuning Fiat/Lancia Twin Cam Engines by Guy Croft
3) Twin Cam Italia by Phil Ward
4)Essential Fiat 124 by Martin Buckley
5)Fiat and Abarth 124 by John Tipler
the 124 CSA was the stradale (=street) version to homologate the car for rallyes. It had twin 44IDF Webers and did produce 128HP. Main changes compared to the street version: lightweight hood and bonnet, hardtop, aluminium doors, independant rear suspension, block bumpers. Even the spare part numbers for the engine are the same as for the normal CS1 - except the titanium rods...
Out of this Abarth (as the Fiat racing division at that pint of time) did build up racing versions:
enhanced compression (12.5/1), different cylinder heads with bigger valves and matched intake - and different blocks! , oil cooler, bigger oil pan, sharper cams - this did result in 165hp - rather impressive as the weight got stripped to 950kg.
Gearbox by Colotti (4 speed), limited slip differential by Colotti (25-100%). Different steering ration (12:1 vs 16:1).
The hardtop was so thin, that you could see through it when not painted to save weight....
From 1974 the engine was changed, rebored tp 1839ccm (comp: 10.7:1) - 170HP, later 180hp at 7000 rpm.
In 1975 the engine got 11:1 pistons, in combination with a flow optimized engine this did result in 205hp at 8000rpm.
Top range then later in 1975, using the 16V head with Kugelfischer injection they got 210-215hp.
To summarize:
Fiat 124 Sport 1608 ccm Spider (Group 4, 1970)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; two valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by two weber double carburetors 44 IDF; 1608 ccm, B x H: 80 x 80 mm, compression 10,5:1, 155 HP with 7200 R/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back rigid axle with thrust props and shock struts with coil springs; all around disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3970 x 1640 x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1340/1240 mm; Unloaded weight: 920 kg.
Abarth 124 Rally, 1756 ccm, eight-valve (Group 4, 1973)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; two valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by two weber double carburetors 44 IDF; 1756 ccm, B x H: 84 x 79.2 mm, compression 10,5:1, 165 HP with 7000 R/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back independent suspension at wishbones, semi-trailing arms and thrust props, shock struts with coil springs; all around disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3914 x 1630 x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1413/1400 mm; Unloaded weight: 938 kg.
Abarth 124 Rally, 1839 ccm, eight-valve (Group 4, 1974)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; two valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by two weber double carburetors 44 IDF; 1839 ccm, B x H: 86 x 79.2 mm, compression 10,5:1, 170 HP with 7000 R/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back independent suspension at wishbones, semi-trailing arms and thrust props, shock struts with coil springs; all around disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3914 x 1630 x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1425/1445 mm; Unloaded weight: 900 kg.
Abarth 124 Rally, 1839 ccm, 16-valve (Group 4, 1974)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; four valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by two weber double carburetors 48 IDF; 1839 ccm, B x H: 86 x 79.2 mm, compression 10,5:1, 180 HP with 7000 U/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back independent suspension at wishbones, semi-trailing arms and thrust props, shock struts with coil springs; four disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3914 x 1630 (running version for the road employment widened: 1730) x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1425/1445 mm; Unloaded weight: 900 kg.
Abarth 124 Rally, 1839 ccm, 16-valve-injection (Group 4, 1975)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; four valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by mechanical ball fishery squirting; 1839 ccm, B x H: 86 x 79.2 mm, compression 10,5:1, 210 HP with 8000 U/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back independent suspension at wishbones, semi-trailing arms and thrust props, shock struts with coil springs; all around disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3914 x 1630 (running version for the road employment widened: 1730) x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1425/1445 mm; Unloaded weight: 900 kg.
stefhahn wrote:
Fiat 124 Sport 1608 ccm Spider (Group 4, 1970)
Engine: Four-cylinder row engine in front lengthwise (LM cylinder head), water-cooled; two valves per cylinder, two overlying cam shafts, operates by toothed belts; fivefold stored crankshaft, mixture preparation by two weber double carburetors 44 IDF; 1608 ccm, B x H: 80 x 80 mm, compression 10,5:1, 155 HP with 7200 R/Min, dry single plate clutch; Five-course transmission; Rear propulsion; self-supporting steel sheet body; Chassis: in front independent suspension at wishbones with thrust prop and coil springs; in the back rigid axle with thrust props and shock struts with coil springs; all around disc brakes; screw-roll-steering; Dimensions: 3970 x 1640 x 1240 mm, wheel base 2280 mm, track width v/h 1340/1240 mm; Unloaded weight: 920 kg.
ciao,
Stefan
If the members are interested in discussing the Abarth we cen open a topic on that.
I was interested in the SPIDER 1608cc (BS1)version prepared for rallying.....not the Abarth...
I mean...I like the Abarth (CSA) to, but I advise to opet a topic on that if we're gonna discuss it
in the data I quoted from Stefan only a couple of adition can be noted....there were off course many more, as I wrote before.
I agree about the Abarth. I only mentioned it as it was well documented. The 1608 version is not. Stephan seems to have information that I didn't although I would like to have his reference. I mentioned my sources as there was only one reference to 165 hp with no spec's. Maybe Stephan will share his source as 155 hp seems reasonable, however in the states I've seen hp closer to the 165 hp on SCCA cars limited to the 40mm IDF. Anyway I like you would like to find more info on these engines as most of the SCCAer raced the 1608 as the centeral combustion chamber layout was more efficient with the same valves etc as the 1756cc with the offset combustion chambers.
you're right, I did concentrate on the official Abarth models, not on the pre-CSA, sorry for that. I am currently chasing down some information re the BS-1 (an pre, even AS) but this takes its time. In the meantime enjoy the BS-1 rally in the Rallye Elba 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf3AGGO0gjg
now I can confirm the 155hp for the BS-1 rallye versions.
From the start: 1968 there were private teams racing the AS, engine pushed up to 110hp (quite a number already). From 1969 Fiat did help with know-how, special equipment and performance parts. 1970 an inoffical racing team was founded by FIAT called Gruppo Clienti-Piloti (=client-pilot group) but you could see that the license plate numbers had a sequence.... the pilots were all well-known drivers in the greater Fiat surrrounding... e.g. Hakan Lindberg from Sweden (32 at that time) who was test driver at Pirelli. In 1970 the Fiats were on top of the italian Rallye championship. They were still using soft tops. With the BS-1 they started using hardtops. Fiat did hire successful pro drivers for their now formed Squadra Rally, besides the service support there were technical upgrades for the BS-1s: a spur-tothed Colotti racing gearbox, limited slip differential (no details), oil cooler, increased compression (10.5:1), twin 44 Webers did allow 155hp at 7000revs. Max. torque 23mkg at 6000revs. Even using the hardtop these Spiders were lightened to 960kg. This was all done in the framework of the group 4 regulations. The BS-1s were used until the CSA (decision to build the CSA was based on the successes of the BS-1 end of 1971) was ready to race - these got onto the tracks in october 1972.
I hope this matches the topic a bit better
ciao,
Stefan
P.S.: talking hp=DIN-PS here, not bhp
