Windshield for my '78 124

[rflegal]

Hi guys, quick question...

I do need a windshield for my '78 as one of the last big item on the parts list. The wind here can be quite bad in the spring and a couple of years ago, it blew a branch right through the windshield as my project sat outside. Suppose I could have turned it into house insurance, didn't seem worth it at the time.

Anyways, there are none locally (used). The yards were picked over long ago and now they just have shiny new stuff.
I have tried twice to get good used ones through ebay. My luck with glass there has been sorry; both showed up as rubble thanks to UPS.

One local glass supplier says they can get one, six weeks lead time, I have to cover extra freight, at about $650 total cost WITH my company discount (I work for a mine, you wouldn't believe how much glass we use).

Recently, I had to have the windshield in my Excusion replaced at another shop when a stone chip turned into a running crack this winter. Out of curiosity, I asked him about one for the FIAT. He said he could get one out of CA, with the tint, including shipping for $260 + tax.

Am I crazy or is this one heck of a deal? It seems too good. Is there something I'm missing or should be looking for?
Anyone have experience with these windshields, I already have a brand new gasket? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
Bob

[mbouse]

stop by and pick one up, i have too many...

cost you a beer.

[baltobernie]

Hi Bob,

I purchased a PPG windshield from a local branch of a national auto glass company last year for about the $260 you too were quoted. The local company (I think it was SafeLite) was unwilling to install it. It seems that most of the glass technicians employed today were not born when gasketed windshields went out of style! I don't think I would attempt this job without an experienced assistant, now that I've seen what's involved. If I remember correctly, there are some specialty tools involved. Maybe the shop that did the Excursion is willing to tackle it, and assume the responsibility for breaking the glass or the car.

I do remember that it was important to add additional sealant between the rubber gasket and the outside surface of the windshield. The glass companies use a product that is heat-activated, but amateurs can use black RTV. The gasket alone will not prevent moisture from settling in the lower track, ultimately causing fogging, usually in the corners.

[fiasco]

Get one off a parts car with the gasket and frame already intact. Mike B has already offered, and I have two in my garage. Depending on where you are located, there's a pretty good chance you can get one from a forum member. Even if you have to drive a bit to get to it, that'll likely be cheaper than the dollar figures you are kicking around already.

-- se

[mbouse]

PA-LEEZE, stop by and grab this winder... frame too.

[rflegal]

Thanks Mike and others for the offers... but I'm in Farmington, New Mexico - high desert BFN... I think that's about 1500+ miles one way to Michigan according to our friends at MAPQUEST! That's kinda my problem, here in the middle of nowhere. I was thinking about a spring trip near Chicago to get a new bed for my M36, if that pans out, I may swing by and take you up on your offer though. I have considered looking for a parts car in Cali and running to get it just for the glass. I don't know. No rush, I was just worried that the deal of $260 might dry up.

Bob

[manoa matt]

Bob,

I've been down this road several times with Fiats. Your best bet is to go with Safelight Auto glass, they should be able to install it for around $200 with a lifetime guarantee against cracking, that is provided your frame is not rusted on the inside.

The problem with the frames is chrome on the outside and no protection for the bare metal on the inside, compounding the problem is the fact that Fiat used open cell foam to take up space and elimenate noise in the internal space between the frame and rubber gasket. Any moisture that makes its way between the gasket and frame is held there by the foam, increasing corrosion from the inside out.

It is not uncommon to see frames with pack rust at the lower corners where the frame enters the fender. I just replaced a friends frame while keeping the glass and gasket in place due to a completely rusted out frame. The pack rust had forced the gasket and glass almost out of the frame. Her car was a 78 and the frame was from a 76, in theory they are the same frame. Glass does funny things and changes shape over the years so the frame did not exactly fit, but I got it in there and didn't crack the glass. I adjusted all the gaps between the frame and door and everything looks and works perfect.

The glass from one 78 may not fit in the frame from another 78, that is why all the guys say to replace the frame gasket and glass all at once without seperating them, the problem with that is there is always rust inside the frames, the gaskets contain dirt between the gasket and the glass which can't be removed without seperating the two, and the "new" frame may be in worse shape than the existing one. My view is that to do it right and have everything look good and perform as intended, you need to seperate and clean/refurbish everything before putting it back together and remove the open cell foam while youre at it.

Granted this was my third try and the first two times were with my own car, I cracked the glass both times. I learned something each time and it does take some finesse to get it right, which does not happen on the first try. New glass from an auto glass dealer is still flexible and has more "give" when installing it. 30 year old glass is brittle and likely has changed shape a bit. The fogging/milky white discoloration at the corners is due to the fact that its laminated glass. There are two pieces of glass with a plastic/vinyl inter layer that binds them together. The glass delaminates at the edges and once delaminated the UV degrades the inter layer turning it white.

No special tools are required and there are only three components, the frame, the gasket, and the glass. If you have a new gasket you will want to lay it out in the sun for several hours to "relax" and get rid of the "memory" from being folded up. If you try to use that gasket as is, it will definatly crack 30 year old glass. You need to lube the entire gasket so that the glass and gasket can equalize and center itself in the frame. I cracked the first two because the glass got pinched from the gasket and could not move which created a stress crack.

Before calling safelight you need to dissassemble the frame and check the internal condition. You may need to wire wheel the corrosion and paint over it. Safelight or any glass installer for that matter will not warranty or install glass into a frame that has corrosion.

Its nice to get a deal on some used glass from another forum member, but think about the big picture, you have two options. Drive/fly half way across the US to pick up a 30 year old brittle piece of glass and then spend over $200 just shipping it back to NM. If it dosen't break durring shipment it might break after or durring installation. Even if all goes right its still a 30 year old piece of glass that is fogged at the corners, haze and possible rock chips or blemishes. It may not crack durring installation, but go over a big bump a few weeks later or park it in the hot sun and it might.

OR spend $200 and have someone else do it, get a new piece of glass that is perfect, and have a lifetime warranty against breakage.

If you decide to do it yourself give me a call as there are many little tips and tricks to get it right without cracking it.

Matt Scarton (808) 206-1978

[james124]

Thanks for all the valuable information, Matt. I am now much more educated on Fiat windshields. JimmyG

[jfrawley]

This past summer I replaced the windshield on my '82. Found a local place in Maryland that sold me two for a total of $418, all in. They didn't have them in stock and had to have them shipped in from somewhere, so some wharehouse out there has them for under $200 each. One of our leaders in DC Fiats, John Erskine, and I changed mine, and his, in an afternoon. We removed the two windshield frame bolts on each side of the car, and carefully pulled the frame off the car while leaving the glass and gasket attached to the car. We then pealed the gasket off the top and sides of the glass, carefull to leave the bottom of the gasket attached to the pinch weld. The glass then just slipped up and out of the car leaving us with the gasket still attached to the pinch weld, but otherwise loose.

After carefully cleaning the inside of the frame and gasket of all the old foam, and repairing a couple of things on the frame, we slid the new glass down into the gasket on the bottom, carefully worked the gasket up and over the top of the glass, and secured it with some painters tape. We shot a big bead of RTV into the frame, slid the frame back over the whole thing, lined up the bolts and loosely attached them. We then closed the doors, lined up the frame correctly to get a good closure, and secured the bolts on both sides down pretty tight, but not all the way. We then raised the top and snapped it down to make the sure the windshield was in the correct spot, and finished securing the 4 bolts. The last step was to shoot a bead of RTV between the gasket and the windshield to get a good tight seal.

I'd never done this before, and I'm not sure it would have gone as smooth if John wasn't there to lead the way, but it sure came out nice. You can do this yourself with a little help.

[rflegal]

Thanks everyone, Matt and John too. Not sure what I'll do yet. The guy at the glass shop indicated they would install, even if just in the frame and not the car. I will have to cogitate a bit. Might finish the car up then take it to him for installation and let him take the risk. I know it would really ruin my day to break a new windshield. Thanks again for all the advice. Are the any other fiat guys from the board here anywhere near Farmington NM? It would be nice to rally this summer. - Bob

[tonyfromjersey]

I called around and got nowhere with the national chain guys. I went to visit Bruce (Bruce's parts bin), he had one with a bite taken out of it. Pretty much gave up on it for the fall. I will look again this spring, as mine is starting to delaminate badly. It's really bad at night when oncoming headlights hit it. Right now car is under cover, and soon to head back to body shop for some touch-up work and a wet sanding. The best part about that is I get to put my daily driver back in the garage for the winter. Those 345AM cold winter mornings made slightly better without the need to scrape ice.

[baltobernie]

You could drive to Annapolis in the Spring. Erskine can help you install a new one as he did with John, me, and others. The windshield itself is pretty inexpensive, but the toll roads between!

[abcman3000]

I have an " ARVA laminated safety glass - made in Finland " windshield glass. Has anyone heard of it ? It's tinted green

On what models was it installed ?