Some coupe questions

[sptcoupe]

If you give me your email, I will send you some pics of my BC coupe with 14" wheels and various carb set ups. As I recall, the euro spec cars I had (coupes and spiders) came with a lower ride height than US cars. It was raised on cars sold here to meet certain US specs regarding headlight height, etc. So, you may not have to lower your car. They also were sold from the factory with dual IDFs, so they may meet the Swiss requirements you mentioned regarding originality. I like the KYBs on the front, as I have always found the Konis to be too non-compliant (even on the softest setting) for comfortable, day-to-day street use. The KYBs in front give you a more comfortable ride for normal street use, and with the Konis in the rear, it helps eliminate undertseer.That said, along with the new 2.0L engine going in the BC, I am putting Konis on all four corners again. Depends on what you want in the way of compromise/set up for street use. Fact is, you don't have to anything to enjoy the car!

[Redline]

Finally picked it up yesterday. Murphy's Law dictates that you will have to drive your new, unfamiliar classic through 2 hours of rain and rush hour traffic on a 4°C day.

Took a half day's vacation to try to get there and back in daylight. Arrived to find the Swiss-Italian garagist had outdone himself. Everything polished, adjusted, set and ready to roll. The positive impression from my test drive day was confirmed and the car doesn't at all look its nearly 38 years.

Fiddled with the static belts to reach a nice compromise then gave the key a twist and it started right up. Nice.

Random impressions (most here know all this of course, but this is what struck me getting back into an old Fiat after decades away):

The steering wheel is the size of a hula hoop and has a rim the width of a curvy pencil. Archaic and lovely.

Steering is a bit too light on center but weights up nicely in corners. You get into the groove and basically pilot it with fingertips on the motorway, but manhandle it on the B-roads.

Pretty nasty axle tramp in 1st if you bodge the launch. Got the hang of it quickly.

Gearbox is quite nice. Not an MX-5 rifle bolt shift, but nice and snickity-snick with that delightfully tactile 1" black sphere on top. 2, 3 and 5 are somewhat noisy but they don't crunch or jump out.

I was initially perplexed by the three illogical heater sliders between the seats. Took me a while to figure out each function (while trying to see through a foggy windscreen). Eventually I got it more or less straight and was rewarded with lots of warm air. Kind of fun to work the sliders like the pilot of a multi-engine plane.

The dual-carb engine pulls well from as low as 1500. No stumbles or coughs. Idles quite smoothly. I am, to be honest, amazed. Again, it seems the mechanic knew his stuff.

Front vent windows are really cool and its a shame they went away. Nice ventilation.
Front vent windows are noisy as hell on the motorway. It's a good thing they went away.

Only the Italians could think to have separately switched external lights and instrument lights. Took me a while to figure that one out when things got really dark inside. Likewise, the two switches to control the wipers are odd, but at the same time a variable interval on such an old car is nice. The swept area is about the size of my hands.

Rolling back an old mechanical trip odometer is so satisfying. It's like winding my watch; a little pause and ritual that makes life a bit more special.

Loud. Really loud. Good old early 70s mechanical loud. Wind, motor, gear whine, differential hum. Nothing unhealthy, but kind of funny after so many years of isolating cars. Even my old Opel Speedster seemed quiet in comparison.

Greenhouse. Is there anything better than driving a fishbowl? Instant knowledge of everything around you, easy to park, a connection with the outside world only surpassed by a proper drop-top (and in my opinion better than a targa).

Is there anything warmer than the light off 4 proper Carellos? Threading the needle down a tree-lined straight near home (think classic Tuscanese pine alley), I felt like Walter Röhrl.

Gorilla driving position. Wow, I had faint memories of my friend's old 124 Spider, but this is extreme with the big wheel. I think they extended the steering wheel hub on later Spiders, didn't they? Knees at the ears and arms stretched. Cool. Strangely, the human body adapts quite quickly...

Finally, the true essence: within the two hours I went from timidly getting it out on the motorway, hearing every noise, feeling every twitch, to leaning on it like an idiot on familiar roads at the end. The truth of these happy little Italian cars is they only come alive and behave when you work them hard. I'd been trundling along without using so many revs for much of the drive. When I finally started to hammer it, it was , impressive beyond the objective performance. With both carbs sucking air, it has a great sound. It growls and rasps, begs for revs and encourages you to snap off perfect downshifts. I even re-acquainted myself with proper double-clutching as it made the cranky 3-2 shift soooo much nicer. After a year of a flappy-paddle gearbox it's good to be back; you cannot convince me that anything will replace a manual box for driving enjoyment. The chassis grips better than its 185/70-13 generic rubber and live axle should allow. It feels light and neutral, getting up on its toes on greasy roads. I'm already re-thinking any ideas about more rubber, because even in my short drive I've found the handling really accessible and fun. More grip would probably just ruin it. My worries from the test-drive about a bouncy rear end were unfounded; the damping is actually really good.

Oh, and it stinks. All those great old smells you thought you had left behind 15 years ago. Guess I won't be welcome in Munich or Berlin (where they have "environment" stickers for cars).


Short version: I'm still grinning like an idiot. Shame I didn't do this earlier.

[kmead]

A great write up. A perfect sum up of all that is right about a classic car and why modern appliances are great transportation but neither involving or inspiring. (Lotus relatives, various other true sports cars and Miata's excepted)

Congrats on what I hope ends up being a great purchase.

As for the lighting choices, I believe it was to allow shutting off the interior lights completely on long night runs where you just want to see the road.

Be careful of the lever for the lights, the three positions can be a bit of a scare if you inadvertantly flick it to the bottom position when quickly dipping the beams, going from 4 highs to just parking lights in the midst of a corner or other moment when overtaking another car can be a bit disconcerting.

I am most envious.

[sptcoupe]

Redline - you have mail with pics.

[sptcoupe]

REdline - tried several times, but the message keeps coming back as undeliverable. Is the address you posted correct?

[Redline]

Strange. I've received e-mail today on that address.

[sptcoupe]

Redline - tried again a few times this morning, with no luck. Do you have another email address?

[Redline]

Getting back to the seatbelt question, my Coupé has three attachment points for the static belts. One on the B-pillar, just below the window, and one each on the floor either side of the seat. I assume the American cars had inertial belts, which implies a fourth attachment point for the reel near the floor. Could someone give me a clue of where to look (approximate position) so I don't have to pull up the whole carpet searching for it? I've found some decent retrofit belts and would like to make the change ASAP. The static belts are almost more awkward than a 4-pt harness.

The seller suggested that I could attached both the retractor and the outboard lap belt connection to the same floor point, but I am skeptical. I'm pretty sure Fiat would put a 4th point in for all markets by '72.

[ital]

Great story Redline and congrads on your purchase!!

The seller suggested that I could attached both the retractor and the outboard lap belt connection to the same floor point, but I am skeptical. I'm pretty sure Fiat would put a 4th point in for all markets by '72.

I did this on one of my coupes. Works so well and for every day driving it is a pleasure

[mdrburchette]

Awesome write up! Anyone reading this that has not been privvy to an old Fiat would be anxious to find their own. I'm still laughing at how well you captured the essence of our beloved little cars.

[Redline]

That's also what I did in the end, although, like in your picture, it fouls slightly on the rear armrest and therfore doesn't retract so well. I've removed the armrests for now until I get a chance to work something out. Soooo nice not to be pinned in by static belts anymore!

[Redline]

I like the KYBs on the front, as I have always found the Konis to be too non-compliant (even on the softest setting) for comfortable, day-to-day street use. The KYBs in front give you a more comfortable ride for normal street use, and with the Konis in the rear, it helps eliminate undertseer.

As I will need shocks / dampers soon, I'm resurrecting this question. Which KYBs are these? The normal non-adjustable GR-2s?

The Coupe has been running exceptionally well since my original post. It fired on the first twist of the key after sitting idle all winter in the garage. I did nothing special to store it, except filling the tank and tires and keeping the battery on a charger. Brilliant! I've been taking it to work on nice days and it simply sets the good mood for the rest of the day. The "long way home" includes a great 10km section of empty, twisty, flowing B-road through the Swiss countryside; perfect to get into a rhythm... and also perfect for making it clear that the shocks (dampers) are on their way out. It also needs new control arm bushings sometime this year, but I plan to stick with OEM stiffness. I like the compromise between compliance and control. Not trying to build a race car.

I took the Coupe to a local 124 expert for its spring service and a general opinion on condition (to help plan future steps). When he called back, his first four comments were all compliments. Wonderful car, so original, absolutely solid, where the heck did you find one so good? Then he asked if I wanted to sell it.

I was trying to hunt down some Cromodora CD39s, but a few detailed photos of Ebay offerings started to make me nervous. 40 year old magnesium wheels with pits, flaking paint, hidden cracks... no thanks. The steel wheels are growing on me with their simplicity and unassuming looks, but I'm still considering 13x6 Compomotive Minilite copies or
alternatively a set of 13x5.5 wheels from Australia that look very close to the Cromodora Daytonas:



Decisions, decisions. Strangely, I still want to stay with 13", despite the limited choice in rubber. I'm just loving the playful handling.

[mdrburchette]

What did your mechanic suggest you do for shocks? I have to disagree with Jeff about the harshness of the ride with Koni yellows. My Spider is sporting them and are set around midrange in front and full soft on the back. I don't notice any jarring harshness to the ride at all but I like how it handles.

[sptcoupe]

My favorite suspension set up for a BC coupe, driver car, is lowered springs, standard bar in front with rubber bushes, KYB non-adjustable GR-2s in front, Konis in the rear set soft to mid, a bar in the rear with rubber bushes, and a later model de-dion and panhards. This set up moves it from a benign understeer to what feels like a nearly neutral handler and provides a comfortable ride. I suppose you could lift the inner rear wheel in a hard corner, but I think you would have to try real hard to do that on the street. Be sure you adjust the rear brake compensator to keep it working properly. I prefer rubber bushes, as I find the teflon variety to be noisy (lot's of squeaking), tand they ransmit a lot more road noise.

I just went ot Konis all around on the my coupe in this latest engine swap and suspension re-do, and it really has changed the feel of the car. I haven't had the opportunity to drive it much yet, but the car just dsoen't seem to set up for corners the same (or as well), especially on wash board or rougher surfaces. Maybe I'll get used to it, but I have never stayed with the Konis in front very long.