Help Needed! Time is Short!

[Exit98]

Hello All,

I need help and I don't have much time. I could lose this car if I don't decide by tomorrow. I'm looking at a 1971. I want a small bumper 1608. This one is very promising, but I can't verify the motor.

Opened the hood and went right over to the top of the oil filer to check the number, but there was a distributor in the way!

PO says as far as he knows the motor is original, but he's only had it five years or so. Car looks very original.

Here are some pictures of the motor:







The serial # puts it right into the middle of the 1608 series. Could this be a 1438 cc motor? Has anyone seen a 1608 with the distributor on the left front?

Problem is the car is more than 2 hours away and to see it again would be a hassle for me and, since it is stored remotely, a hassle for the seller.

Oh, the number on the head is 124 AC 4191156.

According to my poor notes the head on the last 1608 (real) I looked at was 4194208

I'll take any advice at this point. Am I obsessing about a 1608? The car is quite nice, a 6 or 7 (6.5?). Complete suspension and brakes gone through throughly. Electrics seem OK, all lights, signals, and heater work. Engine accessories all replaced, timing chain, hoses, clamps, alternator, rad, thermos, ect. Negligible rust, some bubbling under very nice paint.

Thanks, and if anyone wants to see better pictures, or has any personal comments my email is dmasto@optonline.net.

[swede]

Check this page, it will show you what to look for...
http://www.netikka.net/ville.vieri/tc/tclist.htm

[mdrburchette]

The number you are reading for the head is not the part number but some sort of serial #. I just looked at two confirmed 1608 heads in my shop and they each have a different number on top of the head:
124 AC000 4239436
124 AC000 4268803

You could still have a 1608 with a block mounted distributor and a 1438 head. You need to look at the number stamped on the side of the block right above the oil filter housing and right below the distributor to determine if it's a 1608. It needs to be a 125bc040.

[Exit98]

Thanks MDR for the post .

I re-read it a couple times.

Do you agree the s.n. on the head is inconclusive regarding the block cc size? Or do you think it is a 1438 head?

You mentioned "block mounted distributor".

Is this something you are familiar with? Can a 1608 have one like that?

I've never seen a 124 engine with the distributor anywhere but on the back right. This one is front left.

It would not have come from the factory like it is now if it is a 1608?

Yeah, I looked for the numbers. It seemed the area was blocked by the distributor. I just couldn't find them. Now I wish I searched harder, since I've seemingly created my own delemma.

[mdrburchette]

The 1608 block has the hole for the distributor but usually has a plate covering it so it is very possible someone changed it over. I was helping a friend in Israel with parts for his car and his 1608 had the block mounted distributor. Ask the person selling the car to give you the block number. It will be on that raised flat portion of the block right above the oil filter housing. It most likely will have to be cleaned off to even see the number. On the other hand, a 1438 is not a bad engine to have.

Do you have the VIN# from the car? I was looking at your pics and wonder if it is a 71 since the taillamps don't look like the wrap around type like on the 71-72, but those were only on cars with the 1608s. There were some 71s with the 1438 engine and shorter taillamps.

[Makita]

I think it is 1438 cc motor

[So Cal Mark]

if the rest of the car is that good, would the engine be a deal breaker? That's probably one of the easier things to change.

[Exit98]

MDR,

Thanks for taking the time this afternoon.

The vin is 124 BS1 0049465. Right in the middle of the 1608 series.

Anyway, I couldn't find the block number, I think its blocked by the distributor assembly.

You are the second person to tell me the 1438 is a good motor. I just have to decide.

I've got the budget, the wife's OK and the time, I've just been reluctant to pull the trigger. Keep thinking the perfect one will show up tomorrow. This is the second reasonalbly nice small bumper car I've seen recently. Lost out on one 3 weeks ago when I was outbid on ebay.

Mark, thanks for chiming in. The last thing I want to do is put in a motor. I'm 63, I want a driver! I'll have enough hassles keeping a decent one running reliably. My 124 will get a lot of use.

Thanks all, Happy New Year,

Doug

[Makita]

found this bad photo, there is 1438 cc motor

[Exit98]

Thanks Mikita

[kmead]

I believe that would be a bona fide 1438. The 1438 is a very good motor obviously a bit off on power and torque from the 1608.

I believe the number 124AC419xxx is for a 1438 head per: http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/headid/headid.html

[mdrburchette]

I've got a 1438 in my 70 in the garage and the only visual difference is the timing cover is grey instead of yellow...and the distributor is mounted on the block. Even the number on the cylinder head is 124AC 4220542 so you can't go by that.

[kmead]

I can't get to my '70 Coupe right now which has a 1438, but it looks identical to the Spider motor.

The easiest way to tell what you have there is to look at the front pulley, a 1438 uses centrifugal oil filter (like the 850s) which gives a very different look to the crank pulley with a series of 10mm bolts around the circumference with no visible crankbolt.

[spiderrey]

You know ,I was reading an old article last month and it said the 1438 was .1 second faster to 60. I was surprised to read that. Anyway, the MOST IMPORTANT thing when buying a spider is the body. If its good, pull the trigger. The 1438 is fine, had one . As stated earlier you can always drop a 1608 in and another plus with this car is the easier to locate tail light.

Plus, thats the best color. Whats the paint code on the tag under the hood.

[Exit98]

You know it'd be worth it to buy any old 124 just to be part of this group. You guys (both genders of course) are super.

Great advice all day, as well as Ralph (lanciahf here) who has been doing reseach and emailing me back and forth. He thinks it is most likely that the car suffered some event earlier in its life, broken timing belt or bad overheat, necessitating a replacement head. He said the 1438 head would work fine, and the distributor would have been relocated then.

Of course a whole different motor could have been dropped in as well. There is no doubt from the VIN though that this was a 1608 car when new.

Meantime so many of you, and Ralph, have pointed out what a good motor the 1438 is. So there you go.

Don't know yet what I'm going to do here. I'll decide later tonight and may know one way or another by tomorrow night.

Since joining the Forum (and beginning my search) in August I've been looking forward to the day I can post that my 124 is sitting in the garage. Then I can really be a part of the club.

Thanks everyone.