Dist in 180 out? Please help ASAP

[zachmac]

I have committed the cardinal sin (several) and I need help ASAP please.

I committed the sin of too many things at once, timing belt, AND distributor rebuild at the same time. I am trying to button everyhting up and get herrunning today and it won't start.

FIRST, I know the timing belt is correct. All four marks line up perfectly, the crank at 0*, both cams with holes at pointers and the aux. shaft index at 1 oclock.

Second, the plug wires are correctly wired, cap is marked with firing order and cylindersa re 1-4 from front to firewall (correct?).

Where I went wrong was two fold:

I did NOT mark . index the distributor / block before I pulled it out. I read the instructions for removal and install and figured by lining up all the timing marks and install the distribuotr with #4 firing I would be close enough to get it to run by slight dist. movement.

Here is where I MIGHT have misunderstood / gotten it bass ackwards - the manual says to line up the marks and set the distributor in with #4 firing. Is that the crank mark only (cams 180 out) or all marks aligned (cams and crank marks lined up? I suspect now that it is the latter and I am 180 out since I set it in on #4 with the crank mark aligned but the cams 180 out. It is sparking but I got the kind of backfire that says 180 out. Befroe I go out and swap it can anyone confirm the correct alignment?

BTW, I know to NOT keep cranking / trying while possibly 180 out as i blew the exhaust off a 1061 Cadillac convertible that way once!

[zachmac]

Never mind. I got impatient and went out to the garage and swapped it 180 and sure enough, wants to run. Now. I jsut need to get the dist. alinged where I can turn the cap enough to get timing right. The dist. will of course actually drop in at any of several positions.

Now I know, all timing marks aligned is #1 TDC on EXHAUST stroke and #4 TDC on compression stroke.

[racydave]

Join the club Im a member too

[zachmac]

BTW, where do people power the timing light from. The leads for the battery won't reach the trunk! Obviously the balck can go to any good ground, where do folks pick off the hot?

It startred, ran well and now won't restart!!!! I need the timing light.

[ga.spyder]

Hey Jeff,when racydave and I timed mine we got power off the alt.,and it worked perfect.On our LeMons car we did the same thing with the dizz when doing the static timing.Common mistake/
Craig

[hondaluver]

power lead to the coil

[digitech]

What I did, was to make a mark on the dist. body that lines up with #4, because as you've found, upon re-inserting the dist., the rotor moves. I see how much it moves, pull the dist., manually turn the rotor back that amount and re-insert it. It might take a couple of tries, but when you're done, the rotor will be right on #4 with crank/cam timing points all aligned. That is, of course, with the crank aligned to 0 degrees.

If you're still having issues with a no-start, don't forget your plugs are probably all fouled (gas) and will need to be pulled/cleaned.

[zachmac]

What I did, was to make a mark on the dist. body that lines up with #4, because as you've found, upon re-inserting the dist., the rotor moves. I see how much it moves, pull the dist., manually turn the rotor back that amount and re-insert it. It might take a couple of tries, but when you're done, the rotor will be right on #4 with crank/cam timing points all aligned. That is, of course, with the crank aligned to 0 degrees.

If you're still having issues with a no-start, don't forget your plugs are probably all fouled (gas) and will need to be pulled/cleaned.

Thanks for the plug tip. I hadn't thought of that and it could be the case from trying to start when I was 180 out and out of time.

You first parargaph doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I understand what you are saying but "lines up with #4" isn't a set position. By turning the dist. body as you do when timing you are varying the position of the #4 plug wire cap pickup in relation to the dist. shaft. Other than the restriction to have the wires coming out of the cap point toward the plugs versus the fender, you can basically set it up to have #4 firing anywhere in that 180 degree sweep by meshing a different tooth on the dist. drive gear with the cam drive gear when the cam at it's timing mark. For that matter, the only mark that matters for dist. insertion is the exhaust cam; it is only a mechanical necessity that this corresponds to the intake and crank marks also being aligned.

If you meant you mark the rotor position in relation to the dist. body BEFORE removal of the distributor and then put it back in the same position then YES that would be a smart thing to have done BEFORE I pulled it out of the running car. BUT, didn't do it creating the where in 180 degree sweep do I now want to set it question.

[rlux4]

Jeff, a boo-boo I made when lining up the dist. with #4 my first time was to point it toward the plug wire tower. This is normal for the American cars where it's a straight line down to the inside of the cap. On our distributors it's offset, so I was more than 30° off. Once I got that straightened out it fired right up. I also found out during the process that there's a notch on the bottom of the dist. that gives you the correct position. You may already be doing it correctly, but I just thought I'd throw this out as a possibility.
Man, did I ever fool feelish.
Ron

[zachmac]

Jeff, a boo-boo I made when lining up the dist. with #4 my first time was to point it toward the plug wire tower. This is normal for the American cars where it's a straight line down to the inside of the cap. On our distributors it's offset, so I was more than 30° off. Once I got that straightened out it fired right up. I also found out during the process that there's a notch on the bottom of the dist. that gives you the correct position. You may already be doing it correctly, but I just thought I'd throw this out as a possibility.
Man, did I ever fool feelish.
Ron

rlux,

You are a genius in that you finally said what I think others have been trying to tell me but have failed to get into my thick skull! There is an index mark on the body of the distributor that almost looks like a seam from the casting. It runs in alignment with #4 pickup inside the cap and runs down to about the first letter in the serial # stamped into the dist. body. It also lines up with an indent in the cap (not to be confused with the tab on the cap that positions it on the body). Clearly I should be dropping the dist. in so when fully seated the rotor is pointing toward that body mark. I will re-try tomorrow (out of car time today) and then static time with ignition on and timing light before I re-try starting. BTW, plugs were indeed very fouled. I also figured out that 5 degrees dist. rotation is 10 degrees of timing so I get how close might not be close enough. I'll try it with new plugs and wires and timng light static set tomorrow.

Thanks.

[zachmac]

One more sanity check: for a running timing set I can trigger the timing light off of either #1 or #4 plug wire as they should fire 180 out and either will flash when the crank is passing the timing marks. Correct?

Static timing off the crank mark WITH cam marks aligned is wire / cylinder #4 firing, with the crank mark aligned and cam marks 180 out would be off #1 plug wire as signal pulse, correct?

[digitech]

Correct.

What you discovered about the seam, notch, #4, etc. was what I was trying to say but was coming across unclear - I use a paint marker to mark the same position but then I can see it easier. Then, I just back up the rotor a little (knowing it's going to move and how much) as I insert the distributer, the rotor moves and then it lines up with #4. Now I'm lined up, static timed, the car starts/runs, I clip on my timing light, adjust dist. for 10BTDC or whatever and I'm good to go.

[rlux4]

Thank you for the compliment, but I don't deserve it. Actually, Ventura Ace straightened me out on it. And he was able to do it without once saying "you dummy!"
Ron

[zachmac]

Thank you for the compliment, but I don't deserve it. Actually, Ventura Ace straightened me out on it. And he was able to do it without once saying "you dummy!"
Ron

For anyone who missed it in my thread "Still Verrry Frustrated" in addition to the 180 out my biggest mistake was installing the magnet for the new pickup 180 out. You DO NOT want to do that , trust me. All kinds of bad juju! Put it back in correctly and it purrs like a kitten.

BTW, I seem to have had a run of 180outitus. I have also realized I put the coolant T on 180 drgerrs out (restirction facing wrong way) so I need to swap it as well! Maybe I got a car made for Australia?

[ga.spyder]

Jeff,now that you have her straightened out,maybe we could take a ride?Maybe meet in Clayton and run up around Highlands.Let me know,there are a couple cars in my general area ,but they are all under reconstruction.Wont be too long before the weather turns too cold for Spider cruisin'
Craig
nuker598@yahoo.com