To Keep, or Not to Keep...Advice Please

[eshorer]

I have a For Sale listing for a 1978 Fiat Spider on this forum that has been stored for eight years, but I’m wondering about a smart, affordable way to get it roadworthy to keep it, should it not sell. Pics here: http://picasaweb.google.com/eshorer/Fiat# The local Fiat mechanic diagnosed it as having a seized engine needing a rebuild. That, plus some brake work and other things brought the estimate to around $2800., more than I can handle. He suggested putting in a used engine instead, with parts and labor coming to about $1500. He thinks everything else is in pretty good shape, but of course there’s no way to really know till it gets on the road. I’d appreciate your thoughts on this more affordable path. Is a used engine a bad idea? Is there an even better way? Perhaps a local Fiat nut willing to do the work for fun, profit, barter? I’m wanting a weekend fun car, not a daily driver, but am looking for an affordable option.

[Kingme2]

All your decisions in the end of course... but, since you ASKED, here is my $0.02...

When I was shopping for one, I wanted to be able to either have a great body (pref) or a great engine/running shape (second choice)

That lil' beaut is fairly rough.

I've seen used engines for as little as $200. Add $______ to get it dropped in, and a few hours of heavy buffing to make some parts shiny, and it would be a great "hiway" car (looks great as it zips past you on the hiway, but a close inspection in parking lot... less great).

At a minimum, (if you even want to just sell it), spend a few hours buffing, cleaning, use some GoofOff to remove the tape residue from the seat, etc etc.

[wengr]

Not wanting to be the bearer of bad news but imo, it's the little things that will add up and kill you. If the car sat unused for years, to the point of resulting in a siezed engine, than there will be many other things in need of replacement. Like most or all rubber parts, exhaust may be bad or will go bad in short order, what's the inside of the fuel tank look like etc. it adds up quick to the point that you could have just bought a decent driver for less.

[mbouse]

i have two Spiders, and both have far in excess of 90,000 miles. my well taken care of engines are still considered used. if something drastic were to happen to either body, i'd expect these engines to still live on for YEARS in someone else's car.

however, you should be completely honest with yourself. what is your bottom line for a restoration budget? unlimited? $8,000..$5,000..$3,000 ??? how about the time line? 5 years, 2 years, 6 months, a week and a half?

i promise there are other things that you will need to do after 8 years of storage and _____ years of age preceeding that. first off, you mentioned brakes, secondly every rubber hose is suspect of failure, as is the guibo and timing belt. nearly every rubber gasket is shot. is the tranny and differential ready to go? where will you draw the line on the restoration? You'll not do the things I mentioned for $500.

are you any good with ageing and decrepit electrical circuits? bet the fuel delivery system has clogged, and diaphragms dried up. what amount of rust exists on the shock towers and floorboards? does the radiator still hold pressure?

i am not saying that this car is/is not a good project car or candidate... i am saying that you will not complete the task for $1500, and advise you prepare accordingly. if you cannot or are not willing to become a shade tree mechanic, then maybe a Miata would be a better weekend fun car for you. other than slipping in a used engine, i am betting that you won't be able to tolerate too many professional mechanic bills with your "fun car" funds.

if you lived next door, or the other side of the world, i would tell you that i have the skill, ability, initiative, and tools to do just about anything to my Spiders; however, there comes a point when i grow weary of yet another maintenance project. I may not be the average Fiat owner, but, to tackle another man's project car would be quite a lot to ask. NOT that collectively we wouldn't pitch in to help you... but you gotta be there getting dirty and pulling your share of the load; else i would become just an unpaid mechanic for another man's car.

however, with patience and a realistic expectation of total budget, you can do just about miracles with a good start; and it sounds like this car is a good start.

[katsi]

I have $1,600.00 into a restoration that still needs about another 2K to complete and spent $1,200.00 on a second fiat that drives and is extremly less rusty and virtually 100 % complete. Now, I have 1,600.00 in spair parts taking up rooom in the garage. Take Mike's advice to heart when considering what you want to do. He knows what he's talking about. If I were you, I'd find some sucker that thinks he can fix her up and get yourself one that alredy has the work put into it. It's less expensive in the long run. JUST DON'T TAKE HER TO THE CRUSHER - PLEASE!

MMMMM, I smell parts.

[kmead]

This car is definitely a good start. It is all there, which means you don't need to find half the unobtainable pieces. To echo Mike B, paying someone to fix one up will bankrupt you, doing it yourself will be pretty reasonable compared to many other cars of similar age.

Given that its a carbureted car it will be easy to resurect relatively speaking and cost much less than a fuel injected car can due to the expensive nature of injectors, computers and so on.

Unless there was something wrong with the engine before, there is unlikely to be anything wrong with the engine as a result of extended storage. My 850 sat for 15 years before I picked it up. With new gas, retiming the distributor and a new battery it started and has run ever since just fine. There are a number of good what to do before starting a long slumbering car threads here on the forum to use as a guide.

Did you actually take the car to a real mechanic or did he divine its condition from a long distance? I haven't seen too many seized Fiat motors in my time (I've been around for a while...)

It is all the little things that will take the time and the money to resurrect, but this one looks like a pretty good vehicle to start with.

[cutchaguy]

How much for the lizard? (Gecko?)

[So Cal Mark]

the engine condition will likely depend on how it was stored. If any moisture got into the cylinders, the rust will prevent it from being resurrected without a rebuild. The earlier responses are correct; after 8 years the brake system will have to be rebuilt completely as well as all other rubber. More than likely you will have aggravating electrical gremlins due to corrosion in connectors. Even with a good running used engine, expect to replace the water pump, timing belt, various gaskets and rebuild the carburetor.
By nature, any car 30 yrs old will require tinkering unless you completely restore the car at the beginning. Even after that they require some attention. If you just want to get in it on the odd Sunday and go for a cruise, the suggestion to buy a Miata is a good one. You can buy an early 90s version for 2k in decent shape

[eshorer]

Thanks much for all of your advice. It was all very informative. The car was given to me by my girlfriend’s 82 year old mother, the original owner, and I actually listed it for her. She would have liked to see it back on the road looking like it did in the day, but it really does seem like more than I am willing/able to do. I’ve put it up for sale on Craig’s List and on this forum without getting a nibble. What IS a realistic price to put on it? It’s got to be worth something to someone, yes? A parts car for someone? Perhaps eBay with a reserve set at..... ?

[mbouse]

pictures? no valuation w/out pictures. shock towers, floor pans, engine bay, exterior and interior pictures.

[eshorer]

A link to a number of pics is in the first post in this thread. Here it is again:
http://picasaweb.google.com/eshorer/Fiat#

[mbouse]

if it were within towing distance of my place, i'd give you $300; but i'd be parting it out, not restoring it.

[Flyingthere]

It sounds like everybody is ready to give up on the car. Look at my pictures (see the link below to my web page it has a link to the pictures) My car sat for about 7 years and yes I had to rebuild and replace a lot of stuff and to be honest is took me about 18 months and $4,000 (including paint and body work)to get it to the point it is at today. From the pictures your car is really complete, as someone noted, and that is a real plus in itself. If you are willing to work on it, try dumping some miracle oil in the cylinders and try pulling it through in a week or two. If it will not pull though it is time to re-evaluate your options, if it does pull through you may be able to get it running quickly and have something you can get on the road for a lot less than you expect. The knowledge resource on this web site can help you with any system or process, these cars are easy to work on, however they are better if your hands are smaller than mine and you do not mind scuffed knuckles. Doing the work yourself makes you appreciate the car that much more and every time you drive it you will really appreciate the time and effort that you put into it.

[WarbirdAL]

Your car looks better than my 77 that is running and on the road. As I am sure a lot of us will agree, owning one of these machines is half the fun whether it runs or not. But be careful as the addiction sneaks up on you, then before you know it you have a couple more just for parts or possible restoration in the future when you get the chance.