Finally got the pictures uploaded from the work Alvon and I did on the crank seal last weekend.
In these first two pics you can see the old seal. I say 'old', but this is a new seal on the newly installed engine. It had been on for roughly two weeks when these pictures were taken. Clearly the seal is torn up, especially on the top side. This, we determined, was the source of the oil leak. the oil was getting on the timing belt and traveling up the belt where it was being flung off as the belts turned around the top pulleys.
In this picture, you can see the backside of the gear that sat right in front of the seal on the crankshaft. the rubber from the seal is melted onto the backside of the gear. As best we could tell, the gear might have pinched, or at least was rubbing on the seal. At first Alvon was concerned that the seal wasn't seated all the way down on the shaft, and was therefore sticking out and rubbing on the gear. The closer we looked at it, though, it did appear the the seal was seated properly. When we put the new seal on, we slid that gear back and forth a few times, and it did not look or sound like it was contacting the seal itself, so hopefully the problem will not recur.
Here's a pic of the newly installed new new seal.
So far (after two days driving) I haven't seen any new oil. The problem started slowly last time and became noticeable after about a week, so I'm keeping an eye on it.
-- se
Pics from Latest Fiasco
- fiasco
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
- Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
- Location: Ontario, CA
Pics from Latest Fiasco
Steve Eubanks
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
- kmead
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
Are you sure the thrust washer on the crank was the right size (thickness) or that it is there at all? You might have someone actuate the clutch over and over as you look at the front of the engine to see if the crank floats forward as you engage the clutch. You will likely want to do it with the engine running as well as at rest to be sure.
Just a thought and maybe a far out one (hopefully).
Just a thought and maybe a far out one (hopefully).
Karl
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
- kilrwail
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:49 am
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider
- Location: Perth, Ontario
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
So I called it an O-ring in the other thread, but thrust washer is undoubtedly correct. If it's missing, that would explain how the crank could move, allowing the timing belt gear to touch the seal. I believe it goes behind the seal carrier.
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Peter Brownhill
1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider - original owner
1977 Porsche 911S - track car
2022 Ram 4 x 4 - hauler
PCA National Instructor and Motorsport Safety Foundation Level 2 Instructor
Peter Brownhill
1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider - original owner
1977 Porsche 911S - track car
2022 Ram 4 x 4 - hauler
PCA National Instructor and Motorsport Safety Foundation Level 2 Instructor
-
- Posts: 2623
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
- Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
- Location: San Dimas, Ca
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
the thrust washer goes inside the motor on the rearward side of the crank. as i recall.
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
undoubtly, the problem was a faulty installation of the original seal. It's very easy to have the lip of the seal catch on the crankshaft and fold outwards while installing it. That causes the crank sprocket to ride against the lip of the seal and destroys it very quickly
- Tappy
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
- Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
- Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
thx for having this problem solved , now i know exacly what to do , keep up the good work !!:)
FineItalianAutomobile Technology
pls don't see what i write , read what i mean
pls don't see what i write , read what i mean
- fiasco
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
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- Location: Ontario, CA
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
I agree with Mark. When we put the new one in this actually happened - the inner edge of the rubber part of the seal caught on the front of the shaft and folded outward. We had to remove and reinstall to be sure all the edges were flush.So Cal Mark wrote:undoubtly, the problem was a faulty installation of the original seal. It's very easy to have the lip of the seal catch on the crankshaft and fold outwards while installing it. That causes the crank sprocket to ride against the lip of the seal and destroys it very quickly
-- se
Steve Eubanks
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
-
- Posts: 2623
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
- Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
- Location: San Dimas, Ca
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
i went to work on my spider today, finally. but i couldnt, couldnt find the socket for the crank nut?
- fiasco
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
- Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
- Location: Ontario, CA
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
Aaahh! I am SOO sorry! I'll bring it today.spiderrey wrote:i went to work on my spider today, finally. but i couldnt, couldnt find the socket for the crank nut?
-- se
Steve Eubanks
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
-
- Posts: 3959
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
- Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
- Location: Naramata B.C.
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
After reading the story,guess what I'm doing this weekend. I have the same problem,oil seems to be getting up and is being splashed over the inside of the timing cover. I strongly suspect the seal was "pinched " when installed as I did it myself last year. Now I know better and will pull the rad and change out over the next couple of days.
I have to pull the head as well, seems I have a bit of weepage of both oil and coolant,not together thank C.... .
The info gleened from this post has been great.
Going to surface the head and new gaskets.
New re-built rear calipers as well.
Hope I have enough $ left over to pay my taxes.
I have to pull the head as well, seems I have a bit of weepage of both oil and coolant,not together thank C.... .
The info gleened from this post has been great.
Going to surface the head and new gaskets.
New re-built rear calipers as well.
Hope I have enough $ left over to pay my taxes.
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
- fiasco
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
- Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
- Location: Ontario, CA
Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco
Glad we could help. That's why I break things...so people can learn from my mistakes.
-- se
-- se
Steve Eubanks
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
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1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com