Pics from Latest Fiasco

General chat about the car goes in here.
Post Reply
User avatar
fiasco
Posts: 885
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
Location: Ontario, CA

Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by fiasco »

Finally got the pictures uploaded from the work Alvon and I did on the crank seal last weekend.

In these first two pics you can see the old seal. I say 'old', but this is a new seal on the newly installed engine. It had been on for roughly two weeks when these pictures were taken. Clearly the seal is torn up, especially on the top side. This, we determined, was the source of the oil leak. the oil was getting on the timing belt and traveling up the belt where it was being flung off as the belts turned around the top pulleys.

Image

Image

In this picture, you can see the backside of the gear that sat right in front of the seal on the crankshaft. the rubber from the seal is melted onto the backside of the gear. As best we could tell, the gear might have pinched, or at least was rubbing on the seal. At first Alvon was concerned that the seal wasn't seated all the way down on the shaft, and was therefore sticking out and rubbing on the gear. The closer we looked at it, though, it did appear the the seal was seated properly. When we put the new seal on, we slid that gear back and forth a few times, and it did not look or sound like it was contacting the seal itself, so hopefully the problem will not recur.

Image

Here's a pic of the newly installed new new seal.

Image

So far (after two days driving) I haven't seen any new oil. The problem started slowly last time and became noticeable after about a week, so I'm keeping an eye on it.

-- se
Steve Eubanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
User avatar
kmead
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by kmead »

Are you sure the thrust washer on the crank was the right size (thickness) or that it is there at all? You might have someone actuate the clutch over and over as you look at the front of the engine to see if the crank floats forward as you engage the clutch. You will likely want to do it with the engine running as well as at rest to be sure.

Just a thought and maybe a far out one (hopefully).
Karl

1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
User avatar
kilrwail
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:49 am
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider
Location: Perth, Ontario

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by kilrwail »

So I called it an O-ring in the other thread, but thrust washer is undoubtedly correct. If it's missing, that would explain how the crank could move, allowing the timing belt gear to touch the seal. I believe it goes behind the seal carrier.
_____________________________________________________________
Peter Brownhill

1978 Fiat 124 Sport Spider - original owner
1977 Porsche 911S - track car
2022 Ram 4 x 4 - hauler
PCA National Instructor and Motorsport Safety Foundation Level 2 Instructor
spiderrey
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
Location: San Dimas, Ca

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by spiderrey »

the thrust washer goes inside the motor on the rearward side of the crank. as i recall.
So Cal Mark

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by So Cal Mark »

undoubtly, the problem was a faulty installation of the original seal. It's very easy to have the lip of the seal catch on the crankshaft and fold outwards while installing it. That causes the crank sprocket to ride against the lip of the seal and destroys it very quickly
User avatar
Tappy
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm
Your car is a: 124 spider 2000 1979
Location: Belgium ; Centre Of Europe

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by Tappy »

thx for having this problem solved , now i know exacly what to do , keep up the good work !!:)
FineItalianAutomobile TechnologyImage

pls don't see what i write , read what i mean
User avatar
fiasco
Posts: 885
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
Location: Ontario, CA

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by fiasco »

So Cal Mark wrote:undoubtly, the problem was a faulty installation of the original seal. It's very easy to have the lip of the seal catch on the crankshaft and fold outwards while installing it. That causes the crank sprocket to ride against the lip of the seal and destroys it very quickly
I agree with Mark. When we put the new one in this actually happened - the inner edge of the rubber part of the seal caught on the front of the shaft and folded outward. We had to remove and reinstall to be sure all the edges were flush.

-- se
Steve Eubanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
spiderrey
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
Location: San Dimas, Ca

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by spiderrey »

i went to work on my spider today, finally. but i couldnt, couldnt find the socket for the crank nut?
User avatar
fiasco
Posts: 885
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
Location: Ontario, CA

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by fiasco »

spiderrey wrote:i went to work on my spider today, finally. but i couldnt, couldnt find the socket for the crank nut?
Aaahh! I am SOO sorry! I'll bring it today.

-- se
Steve Eubanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
narfire
Posts: 3959
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 am
Your car is a: 1980 124 spider
Location: Naramata B.C.

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by narfire »

After reading the story,guess what I'm doing this weekend. I have the same problem,oil seems to be getting up and is being splashed over the inside of the timing cover. I strongly suspect the seal was "pinched " when installed as I did it myself last year. Now I know better and will pull the rad and change out over the next couple of days.
I have to pull the head as well, seems I have a bit of weepage of both oil and coolant,not together thank C.... .
The info gleened from this post has been great.
Going to surface the head and new gaskets.
New re-built rear calipers as well.
Hope I have enough $ left over to pay my taxes.
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
User avatar
fiasco
Posts: 885
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:10 am
Your car is a: 1969 Fiat Spider
Location: Ontario, CA

Re: Pics from Latest Fiasco

Post by fiasco »

Glad we could help. That's why I break things...so people can learn from my mistakes. :wink:

-- se
Steve Eubanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 Fiat 124 Spider AS | 2108 Fiat 124 Spider Classica | http://calstylestudio.com
Post Reply