Muprhy's law.

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boogiedude
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:22 am
Your car is a: 1978 spider 1800
Location: Honolulu, HI

Muprhy's law.

Post by boogiedude »

So if you guys had read my previous thread about bleeding the brakes, you would know that i just bought a 78 spider that has been sitting outside in the grass(covered, but that didn't do much to protect the undercarriage) for at least 5 years. This is where the story begins.

So a friend and I go over to the owners house to bleed the brakes and get the car at least drivable so i don't need to hire a tow truck to get the car home(approximately 15 miles to my house from his) all goes well and we get the brakes working. we start the car and gently let it roll back and forth to test how well they're gripping and if it would be safe. we decide yes, it should be. so we leave to get dinner and wait for the owner to come home to transfer the title to me. but in my stupidity, i left the lights on which killed the batter while we were gone.

So we get back, do the paper work, and the car will not start. we jump it, let it sit so the battery has some charge, and proceed to leave. i'm driving with one friend in the car and one following in his 76 bmw 2002. i get on to the main road in the neightborhood and all is going well. so far. I look behind me and i have a giant cloud of white smoke behind me and get concerned. i get into 4th gear and immediately lose power. pressing the gas doe nothing. i down shift, still nothing, and then it dies. i roll over onto the side of the road and we proceed to delegate about the what just happened. we decide its bad gas/out of gas(this is the same gas that has been in the car for 5+ years) and luckily we have a can in the back of the bmw. i walk a block to the gas station, come back with a gallon and add it to the tank. there is no room to turn his bmw around and jump it since both cars have batteries in their trunks. so we push it around the corner onto a side street and proceed to jump the car. sean(the bmw owner) is the one operating the fiat while jumping. but the bad thing is, he is way too gas happy. we're trying and trying to get it to go, and finally it starts. goes about 200 fight and dies again. there it sits and we try to jump again. at this point i decide im going to get more gas. just in case. on my way back, sean flies past me in my car, and ryan(other friend) picks me up in the bmw. we arent paying attention and when we look up, sean is pulled over and the car is dead. while approaching i notice a lot of fluid under the car for it having just gotten to that spot. panic sets in.

There was a speed bump 15 fight prior to death, so my first assumption is he was flying, didnt see it, took it too fast and cracked the radiator, which would explain the decent sized puddle under the front end of the car. but alas, its not water or radiator fluid. its gasoline. we look under the hood and see some fluid dripping out of the air cleaner above the carb. we open it up, and low and behold, the air cleaner/filter is flooded. at this point we cant drive it due to a fire hazard. so i call the tow truck. skip forward two hours and the car is now at his house.

The next day.

I go over to start diagnosing the problem. First things first, a new battery. got it, hook it up, and viola, it starts. engine is idling well, nothing seems to be wrong with it. no smoke out the back, no nothing. so on to the next step of getting it running, we go ahead and change the oil(which took forever. couldn't find an alan wrench to fit the drain plug, so we used vice grips) and after the oil change, we decide to take it around the block. we're going and the cars idle starts to drop unusually low and the car beings to die out, assumingly from the idle being very low and the engine just choking out. but we manage to get it home with the help of hills and gravity.


Heres where i need help. I am not the most mechanically savvy person in the world and dont even have a clue where to start to diagnose/repair the problem. thats all the information i can currently think to give, but feel free to ask any and all questions that might help you get a better understanding so you can help me.

And sorry for the essay up there :roll:
User avatar
TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by TulsaSpider »

I would start with the carb and rubber lines. Figure out where your gas leak is or your car will burn! That's a bad day! Make sure there are no vacuum leaks (cracked/disconnected rubber lines) Is the choke opening up? How's the temperature when it warmed up? Is the accellerator pump squirting gas into the carb when the throttle is activated? Is your idle solenoid working? (to check it turn the key on and disconnect and connect it, you should hear a click) Are you sure that the puddle/soaked filter was gas or was it oil?
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
mdrburchette
Posts: 5754
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:49 am
Your car is a: 1972 Fiat 124 Sport
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by mdrburchette »

It sounds like the mechanical fuel pump is going out to me. Mine would flood and then start cutting out and die. It took several weeks for it to completely croak.
1972 124 Spider (Don)
1971 124 Spider (Juan)
1986 Bertone X19 (Blue)
1978 124 Spider Lemons racer
1974 X19 SCCA racer (Paul)
2012 500 Prima Edizione #19 (Mini Rossa)
Ever changing count of parts cars....It's a disease!
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perthling
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:04 pm
Your car is a: 1974 124 Spider
Location: Western Australia

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by perthling »

I had a similar set of symptoms when I got my Spider running after 10 years of idleness. Turned out the gas tank internals had rusted, and the pickup was getting blocked by small flakes of rust. It would run fine if it had been sitting for a while, but after running for a time it would slowly block the sock on the end of the pickup and starve the engine of fuel. Check by taking the float out of the top of the tank and having a look with a torch. If you can see bits in there, tank will need to be drained and coated or replaced.

Good luck.
_______________________
Perthling
1974 Fiat 124 Spider (blade bumper 1756cc)
1974 Fiat 124 CC (same family since new)
1975 Fiat 124 CC (project)
1969 Fiat 124AC (project)
1997 Coupe Fiat 20VT (daily driver)
http://www.fiatlancia.org.au
User avatar
manoa matt
Posts: 3442
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by manoa matt »

I can probably come by on Saturday or Sunday to get it sorted out.
So Cal Mark

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by So Cal Mark »

oh man, this is a hard post to reply to without offending you. First, your approach to getting this car on the road is completely wrong. Piece-mealing repairs and taking short cuts will lead to constant breakdowns and enough frustration that you will get rid of the car.
You need to get at least one manual and the right tools to work on the car. Using vise grips will ruin nearly every part you put them on. The threads on that drain plug are history now. There aren't many different sizes of wrenches and sockets you need for the Spider. Get them before you strip or round off every nut and bolt you attack.
5 year old fluids are destructive at best; oil, gas, coolant, brake fluid, tranny and diff oil all need to be replaced. Every bit of rubber in the fuel system, cooling system and brake system needs to be replaced. If you don't replace these items, expect a breakdown on every trip. Inspect the flex joint and replace it if cracked. Plan on replacing the timing belt SOON. The fuel pump needs to be replaced, and the carburetor rebuilt. The water pump will probably need replacing also.
I'd suggest you get a manual, and read it thoroughly before you get into this project so you're familiar with each system
joelbert2k

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by joelbert2k »

By torch I hope perthling means flashlight LOL
User avatar
boogiedude
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:22 am
Your car is a: 1978 spider 1800
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by boogiedude »

Mark: I do have a repair manual. the PO gave me an old haynes manual he had for it. I'm probably gonna pick up a more recent one. Also, we weren't trying to do the least amount of work to get it out on the road. Just to get it home so i could save the 150 for the tow truck. And the threads were already gone. Hence the vice grips were improvised. It was completely round. Gas, brake, oil, and coolant have all been changed. Was going to do tranny but couldnt decide which fluid to get.

Matt: Saturday or sunday would work, but for obvious reasons i cant make the trip out to manoa to bring the car to you. So whenever you can make it out to hawaii kai is fine for me.

It looks like everyone has differing opinions on whats going on with this car so only time will tell i suppose
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TulsaSpider
Posts: 1547
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:33 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Spyder 124 2L
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by TulsaSpider »

You will be in good hands my friend!
1978 Spyder 1800 make that 2L! Finally making real progress!
mbouse

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by mbouse »

i absolutely gotta agree with mark on this one. please pardon any offense-

five years is nearly an eternity for a car to sit outside w/out being in operation... any car!
guibo
timing belt
fuel system
brakes (understood these are working)
tires
any other rubber part including cooling system rubber

all need intricate attention and replacement before that car held occupants outside of the seller's back yard. you are flirting with disaster or personal injury until the safety items are put right; you are flirting with being left stranded until the wear items are replaced.

rubber should be replaced in five years, even on weekly drivers.

since you are lucky as hell right now, go buy some lottery tickets. Murphy's law is not what was happening, God was watching over you.
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ga.spyder
Posts: 3478
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:19 pm
Your car is a: 1982 Spider 2000
Location: Blairsville ,Ga.

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by ga.spyder »

The luckiest thing you have going for you....that Matt is willing to help you.He will sort her out in no time! Good luck
Craig
Craig Nelson

1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
User avatar
manoa matt
Posts: 3442
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Re: Muprhy's law.

Post by manoa matt »

Eric,

In the mean time, If the tank is not full try and get all the old gas out of the tank. Open the trunk, remove the masonite boards and you will see the tank. Remove the tiny nuts that hold the fuel level sender and be carefull when pulling it out.
get a bulb or hand squeeze pump and pump out as much old gas as you can. With the boards out you will see two rubber lines coming from the tank that pass thru the body and connect to hard lines under the car by the rear axle. Replace those rubber lines with new. Follow those two hard lines as they pass into the cabin along the drivers side sill panel and then up the foot well and into the engine bay. There are several other sections of rubber that link the hard lines in various places along that route. Replace all of those. The lines will pass thru the firewall into the engine bay where one goes to the mechanical fuel pump then on to the supply for the carb. The other goes from the carb to a small inline one way valve and then back to the hard line(this is the fuel return line) You will also need a new fuel filter. (go to checker and get the clear one, Fram G12) Make sure you get the proper fitting hoses as the two lines are slightly different diameters. I know one of them is 5/16", not sure about the other, maybe 1/4" or 3/8"

While at Checkers buy two gallons of 50/50 antifreeze, a flush and fill kit with the "T" fitting and four Champion spark plugs, (N9Y) Also get a new alternator/water pump drive belt. I have a good, tensioner bearing, thermostat, plug wires, a few of the coolant hoses, and a new 1800 timing belt. I got a mechanical pump and an electric pump that we can use to test your system.

Print out this page when you go so you can get these prices. http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ShoppingCart.aspx

I can help you put together an order list of the parts you would need from the Fiat parts vendors when we meet up.
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