Disaster

[manoa matt]

Steve/Jim,

1. I have rear interior quarter panels from a 76 and 80 and 81, Later today I can verify if they are the same profile/shape..or not.

2. Transmission should bolt right up.

3. 2L block with 77 1.8L head will give a slight compression increase = more power. 2L will provide a bit more low end torque, but from what others say won't rev as high as the 1800 block. Fitting the 2L under the hood could be an issue but solved with minimal effort. Use the crossmember from the 2L which will lower the engine about 1/4" , however that means you have to remove all of the front suspension to switch out the crossmember. Suddenly a 1 day job turns into a 2-3 day job, and while you got the crossmember out, you should check the frame rails for cracks and strengthen or repair them if necessary. If that is needed, then it turns into a longer job. IF you don't want to go through all that trouble and your frame rails are good, then some Volvo motor mounts should also lower the engine about 1/4" Of course it could all fit as is.

4. Are you talking about that red 73 from the craigslist ad? It would be a shame to just take the engine out of that car seeing as how its in such nice condition. I posted that as a replacement car, not a parts car. Its a super deal for a early car in good shape that runs.

[fiasco]

Thanks Matt and Denise,

Denise - good point about the smog - thanks! That consideration probably counts out the '73 engine.

Matt - the '73 is not the one on craigslist. I agree that the craigslist '73 would be a replacement car, not for parts. In fact, I have considered just buying that one, and parting out the '76 to try to make back some of the money as an alternative to bringing the '76 back. The '73 engine that I am considering as an alternative to the co-purchase of the '79 is in a different '73 that is already a parts car which has had the trans removed and has no interior to speak of.

Several of options, but so far none are no-brainer perfect. Thanks all for your continuing help!

-- se

[manoa matt]

Steve,

What about the first 77 parts car that I posted? Engine still runs, block is exactly compatible with your current one. Take a knowledgeable fiat owner with you and I'm sure you could talk the seller down to something below $500 for the whole car, or at least $150 for the block alone. I've bought two fiats in the last two years that were in way better condition that the one in the ad. One guy wanted $800 and I talked him down to $400 Me and a friend went in together and split the cost. He need a rear differential and I needed a windshield. I installed his diff and got all the parts. Cash in hand, and haggle em down is the key.

Even at $500 you should still easily make your money back with the parts, or have enough spare parts for your current car that make it worth while. Its always nice to have a spare cylinder head, heater motor, alternator, carburetor, starter, radiator, transmission, etc. think of what those items would cost plus shipping from the vendors. Good original parts are better quality than most of the current aftermarket parts. If this is your daily driver you will soon need some of those expensive parts.

[fiasco]

I finally talked to the guy with the '77 parts car today. He's asking $350 for the engine. He said I could come down and look at it and he would start it up so I could hear it run, then leave him a deposit and he would pull the engine. Then I could pay the rest when I come pick it up.

When I asked him if I could put a compression tester (Ryan offered to meet me there with his) on it, just to be sure things are in good shape before buying, he started to backpedal, saying he didn't want anyone to start "working on it" or "messing with it", otherwise he would have "already taken it out." That didn't make much sense to me, so I asked him straight out, if I came down with a compression tester, would he let me test the compression before I buy? "No."

Of course, I really don't know enough to know if a compression test would really be necessary, or whether it would really tell me anything I need to know - however, the fact that the guy wouldn't even consider letting me test the engine before buying it makes me nervous, so I'm still looking.

-- se

[lanciahf]

Steve ,

The post below was on Mira, maybe its of help to you?

Last Ditch Effort
From: Kraig Jarman
Email: kraigjarman@hotmail.com
Date: Sat Feb 14 09:30 PST 2009

This is the last ditch effort to find a home for the 67 124 Spider. $550 and
its yours. Otherwise it all goes for parts. Description of the car is rust
rust rust. 2.0 Motor, fairly complete interior. Previously repaired body
damage both front and rear. Runs!

I am sure I will get lots of flack for parting it, but I need to move on.

[fiasco]

Steve ,

The post below was on Mira, maybe its of help to you?

Last Ditch Effort...

Thanks - but it's a little out of range - in Seattle).

-- se

[SpiderHead]

I finally talked to the guy with the '77 parts car today. He's asking $350 for the engine. He said I could come down and look at it and he would start it up so I could hear it run, then leave him a deposit and he would pull the engine. Then I could pay the rest when I come pick it up.

When I asked him if I could put a compression tester (Ryan offered to meet me there with his) on it, just to be sure things are in good shape before buying, he started to backpedal, saying he didn't want anyone to start "working on it" or "messing with it", otherwise he would have "already taken it out." That didn't make much sense to me, so I asked him straight out, if I came down with a compression tester, would he let me test the compression before I buy? "No."

Of course, I really don't know enough to know if a compression test would really be necessary, or whether it would really tell me anything I need to know - however, the fact that the guy wouldn't even consider letting me test the engine before buying it makes me nervous, so I'm still looking.

-- se

yeah, seriously.. If he won't let you do a simple 15 minute compression test... then he knows it won't do well in the test. You are right to keep looking.

[fiasco]

Ok - It looks like I'm going to buy an engine from Mark. He's going to pull it out of another car this week and I hope to have it by or on next weekend. YEA!!

Next three issues:

1) By show of hands, who would be available to come to Glendora on Saturday the 28th (in two weeks) to do the swap?

2) What do I need to do between now and then to get ready?

• I've asked Mark for a list of all the gaskets, seals, hoses and stuff that are necessary to put a good, solid, tight, clean engine into my car. Any that he has in stock I'm going to buy from him when I pick up the engine, and any he doesn't have I'm gonna want to order right away to make sure they are here when I need them.
• I'd love to hear from the forum what you guys think I need as well so I can compare that to Mark's list. Just be aware that I can't afford a "while you're in there" list - I just need a "here's what you need to do" list. Include fluids, lubricants, etc.
• I'd also like to hear some suggestions on how to prepare the new engine before installation. Things like what to clean and how. Are there pieces I can/should go ahead and paint if I want them to look pretty when it's all done? I'm a total novice, so I need to know things like, can I put a wire brush bit on my drill and go at it? Is there anything I shouldn't wire brush this way? Are there things that I should leave together if they are already together, or should I take literally every part apart and clean it and reseal it?

3) I want to get a head start on pulling the old engine out. I've got a Fiat Service Manual and a Chilton's manual, and am ordering up a couple of others. In addition to following what the manuals say, what do I need to know before I start pulling stuff off?

This is obviously a big job, and I'm looking forward to all the great stuff I'm going to learn about my car. I'm also a little intimidated, but at this point there's nothing to do but to do it.

Thanks all!
-- se

[So Cal Mark]

Steve
I'll have any gaskets or hoses that you want/need in stock. I'd suggest you start by taking as many pics of the engine as possible, so that if you forget where hoses connect or wires are routed you have a reference. Get a box of nitrile gloves, about $6 at Harbor Freight right now. Your hands will thank you

[manoa matt]

1. Steve I'd love to come out there, but I've got ot go to an neighbor island for work that weekend, so count me out.

2. 4 quarts Shell Rotella "T" motor oil, and a new oil filter($20), two gallons 50/50 antifreeze($14) New timing Belt ($15-20) New fuel filter($3-5)

Optional items: Timing belt tensioner bearing, water pump, thermostat, all coolant hoses. oil vapor seperator hoses, motor mounts, water pump/alternator belt, oil pressure warning light sensor, water temp sensors, fuel pump if mechanical,

You should think about replacing all the hoses in the engine bay. Make a list/chart with the use: fuel, vacumm, coolant, brake. and then list the lengths and diameters, so you know how much of each to buy. Hoses are cheap.

Most of the parts and addons are aluminum. A wire brush on your drill will do but its easier to soak them in a degreaser then get at them with a toothbrush or toothbrush size wire brush. It takes two hands to hold the drill steady, then what holds the part from flying across the room? A bench grinder with a wire wheel is better/safer.

Considering your budget, I assume you want to remove the cylinder head from your current car and drop it onto the new block. If the mating surface is flat then OK, but if its warped it will need resurfacing, which means everything must come off of it.

3. Get a can of PB blaster or liquid wrench and go slow. A broken or stripped bolt/nut can add hours/frustration to removing a part. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. Have a good place to work where you can lay everything out and label it. A box of small and large ziplock bags, some masking tape, and a permenant marker will make organization easy.

[rlux4]

Ron

[fiasco]

Ron

Nice show of hands Ron!

[ventura ace]

I should be available.

It's best to check with Mark for what the engine could possible need changing. He's familiar with the engine.

Of course, any engine could benefit from a complete teardown, and rebuild with fresh parts and gaskets, but that's what you are trying to avoid. I'd say whatever is not leaking substantially, leave it alone. It's fairly easy to change the front and rear seals, and the Aux shaft seal while the engine is out. If Mark suggests changing them, I'd do it. Same with the camshaft seals. The crankshaft pilot bearing is another item that is easy to get to with the engine out (ask Mark's opinion on it, and ask him to snatch the old one out if it should need changing). I guess you'll have 2 flywheel and clutch assemblies to choose from. Hopefully choosing the best parts from both will get you something good. A safer, but more expensive plan would be to purchase a new clutch plate and pressure plate and not risk the surprise of seeing a worn out clutch when you pop it apart.

As Matt said, change all external rubber parts (hoses, belts) unless you know that some have been changed recently. I think Mark wil have all these parts.

Hope to see ya in 2 weeks.

A

[fiasco]

First let me say that for whatever dysfunctional reason I find it hard to ask for help (though I have no problem asking for directions), and I have been floored by the offers of assistance that I've gotten from folks on this forum. I will look long and hard for opportunities to do the same when others have a need I can meet.

In the meantime, though it feels like a major imposition to me, I'm hoping I can get some help this week getting my car and my new engine back to my house. Ryan, I know you have offered your self, your truck, your tow bar and your hoist and Alvon has offered his engine stand and suggested that if Ron is available to come out this week, he might be able to bring the stand along with him.

I am not sure yet what day Mark will have the engine ready - he said it might depend on how busy he is at the shop this week. But I'm hoping that one day late in the week I would be able to go out and get my car and tow it back and maybe bring the engine back at the same time. That way I could spend the next week prepping the old engine to come out and the new engine to go in so we can make the most efficient use of our work day on the 28th (and have plenty of time to eat steaks).

I need to get an ETA on the new engine from Mark before I could really suggest a target day for picking them up, but if anyone that might be available around the end of the week would let me know, then we can coordinate schedules as things become more sure.

And again, THANK YOU!
-- se

[jimincalif]

1) By show of hands, who would be available to come to Glendora on Saturday the 28th (in two weeks) to do the swap?

Drat, will still be gone on a biz trip on the 28th.