New to me '83 spider project

[evm1024]

For some reason I picked up a '83 spider project car. This will be my 5th Fiat and first SpiderEuropa (DS0). I still have my '75 which pulled the nuts off the cross member last year and has been sitting ever since. That car needed the frame chopped and rewelded after getting smacked.

Anyway, this car has some rust and may need more work to fix it up that I want to put into it. Then again it may not. It is sad in that the car has a spedo that reads only kph and has 73364 Km on it (that's about 45000 miles). I'm not up on its history but it appears to have originated in Virginia and made it's way to Washington. The sad part is the neglect that allowed the rust to eat away part of the passenger rear wheel well and paint bubbles where the top boot would attach.

This will be my first FI car...which has the head off. I have no idea why. That is minor as that I have an engine that I've been rebuilding (for years) sitting in the garage. This 2l engine has 8mm mondals.

I'm more or less planning on getting the things I added to the '75 off and putting on the '83. Of course I'll need to inspect the '83 better (just got it home tonight). Shocks, spoiler, springs, master cyl calipers, rotors and so on. All the things that I replaced or rebuilt on the '75 that fit.

The top on the '83 looks good so far. The '73 has "wings" of course. Perhaps someone would like to buy near new cloth top for an early style frame.

Somme questions come to mind. I'm thinking that I'll just pull the transmission and really clean it ouut well and re gasket it. Don't know if there is a problem or not but I'm thinking that it cannot hurt to inspect. And I have a gasket set sitting on the self.

I need to measure the combustion chamber volume of the FI head. The head that I have for the 2l that I was building has 50 cc (from memory) chambers and an IAP big valve kit. I would like to get a larger combustion chamber so as to lower the CR. I have a 2mm head gasket if needed to drop the CR. The big valve head and 2mm gasket work out to 10.4:1

I was reading about IDF vs FI and how hotter cams needed remapping the FI. So my choices with the 2l block are:

1) big valve head, 2mm gasket (10.4 CR) dual IDF, 80:40 inlet and stock ex
2) stock FI head on 8mm piston block with or without 2mm head gasket

Options could be to to get the FI head ported and perhaps a big valve kit installed. All the while trying to keep the combustion chamber volume intact.

More lines of interest are what good (and how much work is it) to get hotter cams with FI.

My goal would be a near stage 2 engine that is easy to drive in stop and go, somewhere between 150 and 180 HP and just good fun in a Fiat.

How can you help in this thread? Just spill your thoughts out. Say whatever comes to mind and I'll sort it all ouut and see what works for me.

Regards, Ethan

[So Cal Mark]

I don't think the 40/80 cams work very well with the stock fi for a couple of reasons; too much overlap, and they are intended to raise the hp range. The stock FI doesn't really flow enough to work at higher rpm

[pope]

Unless you are going with an aftermarket FI system, the stock one will never get you there. It is not programmable and the stock Fuel injectors can only pump enough fuel to satisfy the current system. The 40/80 really does not do enough to justify the cost with this system and anything over a 9.0:1 compression ratio is trouble. You can get to 135 with some mild work, but the big changes are through a different FI system or a carb set-up.

Good Luck

[evm1024]

OK so it really sound like I should stay with my idf until I am ready to go the MegaSquirt (or other) route. Easy enough.

--Ethan

[evm1024]

I think that I have been asleep for the last 4 years. Other things to do (lost my Dad and such) and the 83 sat on stands in the garage. Things piled up on it and was walked around. Somehow I got some energy to clean out the garage and restarted working on the car.

I've been installing rebuilt calipers and new brake lines. Still have the (new) master cyl to proportion valve run to install and the valve to tee. Let's see what has been done so far:

Pulled the interior apart to get at the rust spots. Need to take the seats apart and fix the bend in the backs.

New A frames installed along with IAP red springs and KYB GR-2 (gotta spring for some Koni yellow some day). Rebuilt calipers from the '75 installed along with SS hoses and new rotors (the damn cat pee'd on one of them so I had to sand it a bit. should replace it someday). Gas tank is out, engine is out, transmission is half way out. Should finish pulling that up this weekend.

Tossed the tube bumpers too.

Was going to finish up the initial build of the engine but found that the 40-80 intake cam as rust on some of the lobes (Don't think that was the cat!) So I'm looking to see what cam to use. This engine has the 8 mm dome pistons and a mildy ported head with IAP big valves and performance springs. I'll use the 2mm Gotze head gasket that I got from Guy Croft and have a calculated 10.4 to 1 CR. 421 exhaust into? No cat, resonator or muffler at this point, will need to decide and buy at some point. 40 IDF on a waffle.

Say, I really like the Distributorless Ignition System from Mark. I'll have to buy one soon. Finding out about this really made me happy. Getting the old, corroded ignition system working really looked to be a chore. This gives me hope to get the car running in the next year or so (at least till I go to sleep again).

Lots of minor body work to do as well as some more major rust restoration where the mice built a nest where the battery goes and pee'd on everything till it rusted through under it. Nothing to do there till after it is running.

So if there is a question in all this it might be what cam to buy to replace the rusted IAP? No racing planned, little stop and go traffic either. Mostly back road touring in the hills around Portland OR and freeway jaunts.

Regards, Ethan

[evm1024]

Mouse Pee is very bad. The battery holder in the trunk became a home for a mouse nest. The car sat in a field for perhaps 10 years with a blown engine on a 50,000 mile car. This is what those little buggers did. This is the biggest rusted out area.





At this point I'm just working on a few things.....

Because this car sat in the rain/damp for so long you can see bubbles under the paint. I'll get to the cosmetics sooner or later. THe quarter panel will have to wait.

First off is the floor pan.



Some sheet metal and then seal the floor with POR15. If I read right I'll need about a quart for the interior. Then some EZ Cool and I can start putting things back in.

The seats have the twisted backs. I'll have to do a search on how to take care of that. I have assumed that one can pull off the covers and find the bend/break and weld it back into shape.

I still have 2 more brake lines to replace too. That is a high priority.

Regards

[evm1024]

I'm half way through putting the last brake line, running from the master cylinder to the rad compensator. Just had to take a break. It is getting hot here. I pulled the transmission and that let me get the old line out and gave room for the new. I've got a home made vacuum brake bleeder somewhere assuming that I kept it. The fluid in the old lines was pretty ugly and the flair nuts were very rusted so I really did not trust the existing lines very much. Remond me not to replace them in the future.

I'll have to search on inspecting the transmission once it comes to the top of the heap of things to do. Long as it is out I'll replace the gaskets at a minimum. "Should" be a good transmission but then again the engine was apart when I got the car.

A lot of the under body rubber coating is peeling off. Wish it all were off but I/m likely to leave some on. And then use the POR-15 folks chassis coat on the bare metal. A few surface rust spots here and there.

time to get back to the brake line. My goal for the weekend is to get the brakes working and the wheels on so that I can roll it around as needed. New tie rods and such to install too.

Not to get too far ahead of myself but I am assuming that it is easier to mate the transmission to the engine and install them as a unit rather than do one then the other. I have a frame and winch that I can use....

[evm1024]

And now it is 2016 - Let's see 2009, 2013, 2016 - postings so many years apart.

The floor pan has been repaired. Cut out the rusted and welded in a formed bit of sheet metal. POR 15 and a layer of epoxy on the outside.

Still have not touched the rear quarter panel. It has been pointed out that this is likely not mouse pee but rather a leaking battery. When I get to this project I'll cover the area with a baking soda paste to neutralize any residual Sulfuric acid on the metal. Then I'll go after it with Phosphoric acid and neutralize again. Then cut out or grind out any remaining rusty sections.

I'll have to learn to form the replacement metal into the correct shape. Or perhaps I can find a whole section from a donor car and weld it in place.

All help ans suggestions are welcome.

Hopefully I will get this car drive road worthy by the summer of 2017 - otherwise it will be 2018 based on the progression (2009,2013,2016,2018)