Banjo Bolt on Calipers

[pressonregardless]

Ok, I give. I've wrenched all over the world for the Air Force, but to save me I cannot budge the banjo bolt on the front calipers. Anyone have an Idea, it's head is so shallow, my flare nut wrench in 14mm nor my socket will stay on. I have nicked a couple of corners and for now will just allow the liquid wrench to soak. So I'm all ears! Thanks, Charlie

[racydave]

A 9/16 std wrench is very close to the same size. Snap-on is the best. goodluck

[pressonregardless]

Ok, I found a captive device that bolts over the banjo bolt and supports the brake line. This devise is not used on the new caliper, however I have leaks at both new caliper banjo bolts!!! What is the torque for the banjo bolt? I used new crush washers and I estimate they are about 15 ft lb? Any one?

[majicwrench]

I would guess 15ft lbs is about right, I sure would not go any tighter. New, leaky copper crush washers not unusual. Loosen and tighten banjo nut over and over,this will help form the copper. Of course, I am sure you have made sure it is clean, no debris under washers. They will seat, it may take awhile. Often the original washers will work and seal better than the new.
Good luck,
Keith

[pressonregardless]

Help! I have tightened, retightened, again and again. I tried the original crush washers and the new with the calipers, then I purchased more, tried them doubled stacked. Each time I have a leak under the line fitting and appears to be between the crush washer and the caliper. I took a fine file and 220 grit sanding block and spent a careful hour making sure the caliper surface was clean, smooth and square. Any Ideas? Wanting to get back on the road, teaching my college age son to drive a stick on Christmas break. Merry Christmas to all! Charlie

[ventura ace]

What have you replaced so far?
Brake line? ???
Banjo bolt? yes, I think
Washer? yes, yes, and yes

Is the brake line the source of the leak? I assume that you have cleaned that up really good and made sure that both the top and bottom sealing surfaces are smooth and parallel to each other.

If everything is smooth, square (no tilt or local high spots in the sealing area),and clean, then I suspect that one of the parts has a hairline crack. Do you still have leaks in both sides (and didn't have leaks before??). If that's the case, I don't think the caliper is cracked.

Are the new banjo bolts have the correct size head? The crush washer should fit around the bolt shaft with very little clearance. If there's much wiggle room there, maybe the washer is too large, or the head sealing surface is too small.

Alvon

[majicwrench]

Are we talking about a steady stream of fluid or sweating from the fitting?? If just a tiny seep, I would start to wonder if they are tight enough. As I am sure you know, the banjo bolt has to crush the copper washer. Have never seen the need for double stacking washers and would not recomend it. If a steady stream or big leak, you are really missing something, broke, wrong etc.
When I install calipers on a customers car, I apply the brakes witha prop rod, and let sit with wheels off for a good hour, so I can check for leaks. Not unusual to see seepage at copper washers. As I noted, in most all cases, a few loosen-tighten events produce a good result.
Good luck,
Keith

[kristoj]

When I replaced my brake hoses, they initially leaked as well. I had to crank them down surprisingly hard to get them to stop leaking. This is one of the first projects I did when I began learning how to wrench on my car a couple years ago and I did not yet own a torque wrench . But I know I cranked them down really tight. They have not leaked since.

[brad131a4]

15 lbs is not enough to get the new copper washers to seat very well. I've had better luck reusing the old washers as long as they are put in exactly in the order they came out. I have yet to break a banjo bolt even after drilling out the side hole to the same diameter as the middle hole. I just tighten till they don't leak.

[pressonregardless]

Thank you all! My Son and I just made a dash. I had to order new flex brake lines from Kragen, what are you going to do on Christmas eve? Anyway, after the new lines were installed on the front, every thing sealed and he was able to have his second set of lessons. Hopefully there will be many more as he won't return to college for another week. Thanks to all for the suggestions. I hope some one learns from my story! Press ON! Charlie

[ventura ace]

Glad to hear it, Charlie! Wishing you less agravation on the next phase!

Alvon

[mdrburchette]

I'm happy you got it going too. You'll have to tell us how your son did and what he thought of driving your Fiat. It reminds me of when we dragged a little Pontiac home for my daughter to learn to drive a stickshift in. Ron had parked the car on a hill in the gravel driveway and we were anticipating a good laugh when Jen tried to take off. To our surprise, she took off without stalling or spinning wheels.

[pressonregardless]

Thanks Denise, He did quite well. His launch is different from mine, slowly releasing the clutch and then increasing engine speed, only a couple of stalls. One hill stop sign was fun! We let a '72 Olds 442 (all orginal) pass....glory days, any way he really love the corners in 2nd gear speed, even though he's in 3rd! Next lesson, apex downshifting! Who knows, maybe some of my SCCA days will come out and I'll try a little heel toe downshifting! Now on to the rear's. I think we will first purge all the black brake fluid out first, as we did the front, then move on to the new KYB's for the rear end. I'll put up a new post for shocks because I agree with Mark's recommendation for the KYB GR2's, just changing the fronts made the Spider handling go from a slipper to a hightop shoe- I was really impressed with the difference. I'll also ask for any warnings on changing the rear shocks as I see many posts about rear spring location problems. MY IAP manual says the springs can just be pried apart and the shocks slid out? Any thing I should know about upper or lower bushings on the rear springs?

[brad131a4]

The back suspension is a piece of cake. The only thing that really needs to be done is to unbolt the rear brake actuator rod that is on the rear end. Then if you loosen the bolts for the rear control arms you lessen the chance of ripping the rubber in the bushing. I usually jack the car up from the pumpkin and then support the body that way you have some control when you lower the rear end. The spring pads work best if you put them on the springs when reinstalling. I've never had a problem when doing it that way. If you can spray some penetrating oil one the rear shock lower bracket bolts. They freeze up good and I've broken a few trying to remove them dry. I have koni yellows so I don't know how well the gr-2 are but have heard good things about them from other sites on other types of cars. Only other thing I would recommend would be the swaybars front and rear. If you are at stock height these really make the car handle like it should.

[mdrburchette]

Only other thing I would recommend would be the swaybars front and rear. If you are at stock height these really make the car handle like it should.

Brad, are you running a 1" swaybar in the front and an added rear bar on a Spider? I've got a rear bar I've never installed because of conflicting stories about how it changes the handling. I do like how the front end bites with the 1" front bar and Konis set around 1/2 way in front and soft on the back.