Installing 32/36 Weber and New Intake on my 79

[Pescado]

WOW some cold nights in the garage...Did some more work in the engine bay mostly cleaning. Honestly my biggest struggle so far was the removal of the crankshaft sprocket. Took two screw drivers and had to apply even pressure on both side of the sprocket from the top, then the bottom, then the top, then the bottom, then the top, then the bottom...what a great work out . Finally got it out. Now putting a list together for parts and I want to try and get them all to save on deliver so quick question. When removing the crankshaft seal carrier will it force me to get a new oil pan gasket? Also can the oil pan be removed and replaced with the car on jacks and engine in place?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

When removing the crankshaft seal carrier will it force me to get a new oil pan gasket?

Hard to tell at this point. If you can remove the seal carrier without tearing or ripping the oil pan gasket, you probably will be OK. But I've seen some oil pan gaskets that were pretty much "glued" on, and you had to destroy them to remove them.

Also can the oil pan be removed and replaced with the car on jacks and engine in place?

It can, but it's not easy. You have to loosen the engine mounts and raise the engine up as high as you can, until the bellhousing hits the transmission tunnel, or the rears of the camshaft towers hit the firewall. With the engine supported, you can then drop the oil pan.

There is another approach that might work. It is possible to remove the oil seals by drilling a small hole in the metal part of them and screwing in a sheet metal screw into the hole and grabbing that with vise grips to yank the seal out. Ideally you would use a slide hammer for this purpose. Sometimes it takes multiple attempts at different locations around the circumference. What you DON'T want to do is damage the seal carrier, so don't try to remove the seal by forcing a screwdriver or chisel between it and the carrier. You'll gouge the aluminum which can lead to leaks in the future.

If it were me, I'd drop the oil pan. That also allows you to clean it out, and if you are really motivated, to remove a main bearing cap or two and check the condition of the bearings.

-Bryan

[Pescado]

When removing the crankshaft seal carrier will it force me to get a new oil pan gasket?

Hard to tell at this point. If you can remove the seal carrier without tearing or ripping the oil pan gasket, you probably will be OK. But I've seen some oil pan gaskets that were pretty much "glued" on, and you had to destroy them to remove them.

Also can the oil pan be removed and replaced with the car on jacks and engine in place?

It can, but it's not easy. You have to loosen the engine mounts and raise the engine up as high as you can, until the bellhousing hits the transmission tunnel, or the rears of the camshaft towers hit the firewall. With the engine supported, you can then drop the oil pan.

There is another approach that might work. It is possible to remove the oil seals by drilling a small hole in the metal part of them and screwing in a sheet metal screw into the hole and grabbing that with vise grips to yank the seal out. Ideally you would use a slide hammer for this purpose. Sometimes it takes multiple attempts at different locations around the circumference. What you DON'T want to do is damage the seal carrier, so don't try to remove the seal by forcing a screwdriver or chisel between it and the carrier. You'll gouge the aluminum which can lead to leaks in the future.

If it were me, I'd drop the oil pan. That also allows you to clean it out, and if you are really motivated, to remove a main bearing cap or two and check the condition of the bearings.

-Bryan

Oh man....where does this rabbit hole end???

thanks for the advice Bryan.

[Pescado]

Hello all,

quick update and just wanted to wish everyone Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year. More parts removed so with things opened up I did some painting, came out pretty good just need to do some touch ups with a small brush. New parts are on the way...looking forward to getting this back together.

[Pescado]

Hey all,

Got some parts in so I've slowly been putting things back together, starter is in that was fun. Does anyone have torque values for the parts seen in my picture they can share, my shop manual does not have them.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I don't think any of these torque values are critical, and my approach is usually "tight". Since all the bolts that you point out are going into cast iron (rather than aluminum), you can tighten fairly snug. For 6mm metric bolts/studs, 8 to 10 ft lbs is fine. For 8mm metric bolts/studs, 15 to 20 ft lbs should be fine.

Keep us posted on your progress!

-Bryan

[Pescado]

thanks Bryan....also found a chart at the beginning of a Eldest Build Video.

[Pescado]

Slowly things are getting done here…got all the seals replaced and now looking at the timing belt and not feeling really good about it. I’ve been reading a lot of threads about the timing belt replacement and from that I’ve taking one thing for sure….position of timing marks are critical, even came across a video about a guy that pretty much killed his engine possibly due to incorrect timing…this scares me. So keep in mind I was not planning on doing my timing belt so engine is not at TDC when I started the carb/intake swap, the belt replacement only became necessary after I damaged it with a grinder. I feel like I’ve been really good in not moving things out of line but with all new pully’s and some marks now missing I feel like I need to reset the timing back to TDC. I can’t really find a video or thread that talks about the procedure I would need to do to get things to TDC without damaging anything. What’s. the best way to accomplish this?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Well, it's a useful skill to learn how to replace the timing belt on a Fiat twin cam. It's really not that hard, but there are horror stories. There are 5 basic rules:

1) If the timing belt is removed, don't rotate the crankshaft with the starter. Only by hand, and very carefully/slowly at that.
2) Make sure the #1 cylinder is at TDC. Either by the timing marks or by the "screwdriver in the #1 spark plug hole" trick.
3) Make sure the alignment marks (holes) are lined up for both cam pulleys.
4) Make sure the alignment mark (hole) for the aux. shaft pulley is at roughly the 1 o'clock position when viewed from the front.
5) Make sure the rotor tip in the distributor is opposite the contact inside the cap for the #4 spark plug wire.

When all these are good, you put on the new belt, tighten everything down, rotate the engine by hand a few revolutions, check timing marks again, and you should be good. If you didn't remove the distributor or rotate the body, your ignition timing is probably fine although I always check it anyway.

Since your timing belt is already removed, I'd rotate the cams by hand until the marks are lined up, then line up the aux. shaft pulley, then rotate the crankshaft by hand until #1 is at TDC. Then install the new belt.

-Bryan

[Pescado]

Thanks Bryan…I thought I read somewhere that all the pistons should be set to mid stroke before turning the cams.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I thought I read somewhere that all the pistons should be set to mid stroke before turning the cams.

That's a good idea and I just forgot to mention it. Set the crankshaft so the pistons are mid stroke, line up the cam and aux. shaft pulleys using the marks, then carefully turn the crankshaft until the #1 cylinder is at TDC. Install the belt and tighten the tensioner, then rotate the crankshaft by hand a few turns to make sure nothing is hitting. Check timing marks again and you should be good to go.

When turning the camshaft pulleys, I turn them each a bit at a time, one after another, until both are lined up. The reason being that there are certain orientations where the intake and exhaust valves can interfere with each other if one camshaft is lined up and the other is very far off. So, try to keep the timing marks roughly in the same orientation relative to each other as you turn the cam pulleys.

-Bryan

[Pescado]

Sounds good…thanks for the cam tip.

[Pescado]

Hey Bryan…need some clarity on #5.

Are you saying the rotor contact portion should be lined up directly below the number 4 contact on the cap with the #1 cylinder at TDC?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Are you saying the rotor contact portion should be lined up directly below the number 4 contact on the cap with the #1 cylinder at TDC?

The answer is... It depends. If cylinder #1 is at TDC, and the camshaft pulley timing holes are lined up with their pointers, then yes, the engine is set to fire on the number 4 cylinder, which is just the way Fiat did it. Not logical, but many things about these cars are not logical. So, with this being the case, you would orient the distributor so that the rotor is pointing to the #4 plug contact inside the cap.

By the way, if cylinder #1 is at TDC, then so is #4, and #2 and #3 are both at Bottom Dead Center (BDC). It's just the way the crankshaft is designed. Firing order is 1-3-4-2 for what it's worth, which is the same as 4-2-1-3 since the cycles just repeat.

However, if cylinder #1 is at TDC and the cam pulley timing holes are 180 degrees away from their pointers, then the engine is set to fire on plug #1 and you would set the distributor accordingly.

Hope this makes sense....

-Bryan

[Pescado]

Ok…ya that makes sense thanks. I’ve been watching the eldest build videos and both cars where he replaced the carburetor he has reused the lower portion of the old carb as a riser, I noticed that AR sells a riser for this conversion but it’s much smaller than the one I would be stealing from the old carb. Has anyone had success mounting the 32/36 with just the riser from AR? Does the throttle linkage require more customization than when using the stolen riser?